Laser Nuisance
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My house is at 600' ASL facing south towards St Margarida, 4kms away right on the coast. Abut five minutes ago I was zapped with a green laser from that locality. I'm only glad I was stationary on my terrace and not in transit in a plane or car. Just hope the 
who pointed the laser at our urbanisation keeps it away from aircraft.
OFSO, 1.09.2010, 22:00 local.
who pointed the laser at our urbanisation keeps it away from aircraft.OFSO, 1.09.2010, 22:00 local.
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A few weeks ago, on final approach into Nice at night, some **** was shinning a green laser at our aircraft. It was seen by both pilots and myself, No.2 cabin crew at the rear of the aircraft. It was extremely bright. The Gendarme said they have been getting a lot of reports recently.
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They caught one bozo in the act at Orly. One 
idiot off the streets.
idiot off the streets.
Police have created a "task force" to hunt laser gunners.(seen on the news this afternoon, French TV)
In Australia the ATISes (not sure what the plural for ATIS is) has laser warnings on a semi-regular basis. Generally on weekends. Surprise surprise.
In the state of South Australia, hand held laser pointers with a power level of greater than 1mW, yes that is one milliwatt, are considered prohibited weapons. I was shown a 10mW pointer in a telescope store. It was only about as big as a fountain pen. (you can still get them if you have a legitimate purpose-but your purchase and details go on record).
In the state of South Australia, hand held laser pointers with a power level of greater than 1mW, yes that is one milliwatt, are considered prohibited weapons. I was shown a 10mW pointer in a telescope store. It was only about as big as a fountain pen. (you can still get them if you have a legitimate purpose-but your purchase and details go on record).
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I've been zapped, flying into MRS, as was the FO. All this talk of "permanent damage" to the eye is irrelevant. For a start we have no idea whether it will be or not, and we are not merely concerned with the damage to our eyes, but the distraction, temporary blindness etc. caused by such pillocks - that tends to be our priority.
I hope the book gets thrown at them all - "pour encourager les autres". Idiots. Unfortunately, the more we talk about the problem, the more we encourage these disparate sad gits, with nothing better to do to carry on.
Funny how quick pistols were banned though, because of one loony.........
I hope the book gets thrown at them all - "pour encourager les autres". Idiots. Unfortunately, the more we talk about the problem, the more we encourage these disparate sad gits, with nothing better to do to carry on.
Funny how quick pistols were banned though, because of one loony.........
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LaserNigel writes:
There is no need whatsoever for people to have these devices to "play" with.
There is no need whatsoever for people to have these devices to "play" with.
If the idiots keep setting the bar lower and lower, and reactionary folks like you keep calling for more and more restrictions, the hobby industry - all parts of it, save for things like collecting stamps - will die.
Opendoor writes;
Any l@ser with a power in excess of 5mW should be classed as a weapon.
Any l@ser with a power in excess of 5mW should be classed as a weapon.
Frankly, units in "moderate" excess of this power don't cause direct damage - to eyes, property, or - generally - the well-being of others.
What we are discussing here is not necessarily the power rating but the miss-use.
Many years ago, I purchased a lab-grade laser with a rating of 345mW from an industrial surplus company.
It has never been pointed positive/up with respect to level ground.
I have used it to help contractors level roads, and I have used it to impress friends on 4th of July and New Year's Eve by pointing it downward into piles of shattered glass, misting sprinkler heads, and so forth - but it has never been pointed "up" and I would certainly NEVER aim it into the sky above.
Yet you want to take this away from me or class it as a weapon.
There is a word for people who think like this, but you can google it on your own time.
subsonic writes:
Look. I'm sorry. I've been barred in a previous life for questioning the "real" danger from these light sources to the "percieved" danger.
Look. I'm sorry. I've been barred in a previous life for questioning the "real" danger from these light sources to the "percieved" danger.
Will it always cause a crash?
No.
But a person on the ground has no idea of what is happening on the flight deck of an aircraft he/she accidentally or on purpose illuminates.
And doing so will certainly add to the workload of the pilots.
The idiots posting in other forums on other sites who claim that illuminating an aircraft is harmless fun - and those posting such crap as "pilots who crash because of the distraction shouldn't be pilots in the first place" - are the ones who need to be caught in the act and charged with interfering with public transit.
In this country (US) there is a stout fine ($160k or more) as well as prison time (up to 7 years) and what is needed is more enforcement.
Also, more public education is needed. Obviously, many folks don't think far enough to understand that such illumination can increase the workload of a pilot - perhaps at just the wrong time. I've seen the effect of an office-grade consumer laser-pointer on the cockpit window of light aircraft safely sitting on the ground, and simply illuminating the plexiglass - with all its flaws and built-in prismatic effects - is quite a sight to see.
The effect is what I'll call "sparkly" and it dances across your vision. It actually looks a lot like a lightning strike at very close range.
But calling for a complete ban is horrible, and infringes upon the rights of people who do obey the law and who do use common sense.
This is yet another case of idiots turning a harmless item into an extreme annoyance - or a danger - followed by a knee-jerk reaction by those affected.
I can't really blame pilots for wanting a ban. But as a professional group I would hope they understand that it is not the l@ser, but the person aiming it, who causes the problem.
After all, this same professional group expects the "nimby" folks to understand all the ins and outs and benefits of air transport, and expects them to appreciate the sonic qualities of large (or noisy) aircraft.
Hypocrisy, for lack of a better term. "I can impinge on you, but you'd better not even be able to own anything you can impinge upon me with."
I know, I know... Apples to grapefruit. But you'd better take the high ground here, because the snot-nosed punks who are pointing devices at your planes will most likely lawyer-up and simply waste your company's money.
Real vs. perceived...
The safety of air transit as we know it is written in blood. The airline industry is famous for operating at the edge of the envelop to increase the value of their product. Flying boats, the Shorts and the Boeings. DC-3s. Lockheed Electras. Early jets, the Comet and the 707, both of which claimed their fair share.
There is a real danger, and it needs to be addressed, but it shouldn't be addressed in a way where simple abuse dictates. The idiots using lasers on planes will simply find a new way to be a dangerous pain in the arse.
RR
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Why is laser always written as l@ser?
[edit] the pprune BB software converts the 'a' to '@'. But why???
[edit] the pprune BB software converts the 'a' to '@'. But why???
Last edited by olympus; 3rd Sep 2010 at 13:07. Reason: discovered the answer
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Beam divergence
Just for info, the coherent light thingies* used in astronomical multiconjugate adaptive optics are used to excite the sodium layer about 90km up in the atmosphere to create artificial guide stars. At that point, I believe the beam is about 1 metre in diameter.
*to avoid getting nobbled by the software.
*to avoid getting nobbled by the software.
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Can one of the pro-l@ser lobby please tell me exactly why the general public should need access to a >1mW device?
At or below that power they are perfectly usable as a pointing device, probably their only useful purpose.
For those who say they like powerful l@sers to show off to friends, I'm sure I would like to show my friends a serviceable MANPAD, but oddly enough I'm prohibited from doing so. I'm also in a position whereby I have open and legitimate access to all manner of pyrotechnic, chemical nasties and wonders, do I bring those home to show off to friends? No. All sounds a bit like "small man syndrome" to me. " Look at my monster 350mW device etc....
Just ban >1mW devices, simple.
At or below that power they are perfectly usable as a pointing device, probably their only useful purpose.
For those who say they like powerful l@sers to show off to friends, I'm sure I would like to show my friends a serviceable MANPAD, but oddly enough I'm prohibited from doing so. I'm also in a position whereby I have open and legitimate access to all manner of pyrotechnic, chemical nasties and wonders, do I bring those home to show off to friends? No. All sounds a bit like "small man syndrome" to me. " Look at my monster 350mW device etc....
Just ban >1mW devices, simple.
I was laser attacked three weeks ago on the intercept to the LOC at 3,800ft at midnight in England.
As PF I was forced to hand control to the FO and had a residual after image all the way down the approach. The initial flash made me wince, it hurt and I swore. I spent the next morning having photographs of my retina being taken. I spent most of the night before worried sick that my eyesight had been damaged and that my medical could be withdrawn.
I was suprised at how bright the laser was.
I was incapacitated, no doubt of it.
I think lasers have the ability to cause a loss of control if they hit both pilots.
I think the sentence for those convicted should not be prison. It should be to have the device they used shone for a minute into each of their own eyes whilst strapped to a table with their eyelids pinned open. I strongly suspect incidents would diminish dramatically after the first, televised, conviction.
If you want to play with something go and get a firearm and leave dangerous novelties like lasers alone.
WWW
As PF I was forced to hand control to the FO and had a residual after image all the way down the approach. The initial flash made me wince, it hurt and I swore. I spent the next morning having photographs of my retina being taken. I spent most of the night before worried sick that my eyesight had been damaged and that my medical could be withdrawn.
I was suprised at how bright the laser was.
I was incapacitated, no doubt of it.
I think lasers have the ability to cause a loss of control if they hit both pilots.
I think the sentence for those convicted should not be prison. It should be to have the device they used shone for a minute into each of their own eyes whilst strapped to a table with their eyelids pinned open. I strongly suspect incidents would diminish dramatically after the first, televised, conviction.
If you want to play with something go and get a firearm and leave dangerous novelties like lasers alone.
WWW
OLD RED DAMASK
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Rottenray having worked with lasers since 1978 I think I have maybe a smidge of experience. Yes by all means if you need a laser more powerful than 5mW for work etc, fine but why not licence or register them to the buyer?
345mW is definitely NOT harmless no matter what you use it for. To use the word harmless and 345mW in the same breath, shows that you have a very glib and complete non understanding of laser safety.
to own something non-lethal and mostly harmless
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Lasernigel writes:
To use the word harmless and 345mW in the same breath
To use the word harmless and 345mW in the same breath
The one I own is not anywhere near "harmless," no matter how you try to spin the word. But it is not used to show off by making pretty patterns in fog, or trying to light the bottoms of clouds, or aimed in anything but a carefully controlled manner.
I'm actually mostly on your side - I find it inexcusable when idiots point even very low powered devices at potential targets they can (or can't) see, and I'm for slapping serious fines on folks who miss-use or abuse laser pens, et cetera.
But, I want you to know that THOSE are the folks you have your grief with, not responsible people like myself - and I do not appreciate being lumped in to the same stupid category.
This thread, like all the others, is quickly turning into the same old ghetto of knee-jerk reactions put forth by those who feel that they have the right to legislate what everyone else can own.
So far, nothing noteworthy has been said regarding how to educate the masses, and nothing noteworthy has been put forth regarding better reporting of laser illuminations.
Instead, same old "ban it" mentality.
Honestly, I'd think smart men could come up with something much better - but I might be wrong.
?