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Jetblue Airbus blows tires/ EVAC at Sacramento

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Jetblue Airbus blows tires/ EVAC at Sacramento

Old 26th Aug 2010, 22:14
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Jetblue Airbus blows tires/ EVAC at Sacramento

15 Hurt In Rough Landing At Sacto Airport - cbs5.com

15 Hurt In Rough Landing At Sacto Airport
SACRAMENTO (CBS) ―
Click to enlarge
1 of 1
The flight sits on the Sacramento runway minutes after evacuation.
CBS
Fifteen people have been injured after a JetBlue Airbus made a hard landing and blew four tires before catching fire. The flight had to be evacuated at Sacramento International Airport Thursday afternoon.

The Airbus A320 touched down just before 1:00 p.m. A fire broke out and the crew deployed the emergency slides to evacuate the plane.

A passenger who was on the plane told CBS that he heard a bang and the plane stopped quickly after landing.

"We were then told to start evacuating very abruptly, you know 'Get out! Get out! Get out!," said the witness, identified only as Elvis. "(After I was off) I looked back under the plane and it was on fire and all four tires were out."

The fire was quickly extinguished. Emergency crews set-up a triage area to treat injured passengers. Fifteen people were reported injured.

The flight, which came in from Long Beach, had 86 passengers and 5 crew members on board.
( MMX, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)
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Old 26th Aug 2010, 22:30
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Probably another BSCU problem.
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Old 26th Aug 2010, 22:31
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Video here: 15 hurt after hard landing of JetBlue flight from Long Beach | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times

Wall St. Journal reporting injuries as "minor."
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Old 26th Aug 2010, 22:58
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I thought the airbus was so smart it wouldn't let the pilots do anything wrong wrong wrong. (sarcastic)
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 01:01
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There is a wildly improbable scenario where the brake sensor wires could have been reversed.......strictly a guess.....
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 01:15
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there was a series of problems on the DC10 in the middle 70's in which the anti skid lines were reversed.

---

also:

I've said this before on PPRune, but blindly evacuating is dangerous. I would not have evacuated for a brake fire/tire fire...should have stayed on, fought the fire from the fine fire department at Sacramento airport and waited for some portable stairs or other , safer off loading device..

Last edited by protectthehornet; 27th Aug 2010 at 01:25.
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 02:12
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Nothing wrong with erring on the cautious side.....

And if they had stayed on and there was a catastrophic fire resulting from leaking fuel or hydraulics (onto the burning brakes) as a result of the heavy landing and a few passengers perished, the crew would be criticised for not evacuating the passengers.........right?

It's a given that one or two passengers may be injured going down a slide while evacuating but coming from the view that even small fires can become catastrophic in a very short time, I see nothing wrong with erring on the cautious side. We were not there and we are not yet privy to the communication exchange between ATC, the crew and the First responders that led to their decision........

Good call to evacuate.

The crew now has all the time in the world to debate over whether or not they should or shouldn't have evacuated and cost the company $ (insert your dollar amount here) per blown slide. I am sure that is way better that living with the idea that you were responsible for the deaths of passengers.
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 02:18
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jasavir

but it wasn't one or two injured...it was 15, with five to the hospital.

it wasn't a good call to evacuate...and there wasn't any leaking fuel or hydraulic fluid.


now, there have been times where an evacuation wasn't done and people died (airtours/british)...but that was after a catostrophic uncontained engine failure and a rejected takeoff.

I stand by what I said: blindly evacuating can be very dangerous.
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 02:25
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If there's smoke coming out of the gear up to where the pax can see it, you ain't going to be able to stop them from evacuating anyway.

I remember when Valujet blew an engine on takeoff and had a fire come into the aft fuselage on a DC-9 in KATL. They aborted and evacuated. They found all the overwing exit doors about a hundred yards behind the aircraft - pax just opened them up on their own....
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 02:33
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Nope....

I disagree...

Small fire, from advise from tower, (the only way he could have known there was any fire at all),

You know the trucks are on their way....

Keep them on board, away from injury from the fast approaching trucks and subsequent flying foam etc, not to mention the 'certainty' of a small (not so small in this case!), percentage of the pax getting injured in the evac.

In the unlikely case that the progress of dealing with the fire does not go as expected, again as advised by the tower, then you can evac from the doors least effected from the fire or ground activities.

Portable stairs are much less liable to cause injury!
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 02:39
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protectthehornet,

I agree with you that blindly evacuating is never a good idea.

The point I'm trying to make is that since we were not there and and we weren't privy to the communication exchange between ATC, the crew and the First responders that led to their decision, it is unfair to say that they "blindly evacuated the aircraft".

In addition, I am saying that if you are in doubt about a situation and the possible consequencies of one response versus the other is far more grave, then it is better to err on the cautious side.

The report does not state the reason for the injuries but it did state that passengers said it was a hard landing so we can't attribute the injuries (or at least all of them) to the evacuation process alone.

The 10 minor injuries could be simple scratches, scrapes and bruises. The 5 serious ones could be attributed to the hard landing, the evacuation itself, or to someone looking to make a quick buck....All you have to do is hold your neck, grimace in pain and you are off to the hospital with an injury lawyer in tow......

BTW, I have learnt a long time ago that what we read in the press and the facts as they actually occurred are quite often not the same.
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 04:34
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Remember this one? Firemen were not super fast to arrive.

YouTube - INCENDIO FIRE BOEING 737 CHINA AIRLINES NAHA OKINAWA JAPAN 2/2
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 05:07
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It's much easier to be deliberative about deciding to evacuate when you have two cockpit exits and the front exit doors directly behind you.

In the back with your wife and kids ten rows away from the nearest exit with sixty odd panicked sheep focussed on retrieving their considerable cabin baggage blocking the way, the atmosphere is heavily biased against calm deliberation.

There was a 737 that blew an engine and aborted takeoff in CYYC many years ago. The pax popped the slides while the crew were discussing with the tower -- and got out in the nick of time.
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 06:05
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first off, my friend, an airbus guy, says that maybe the crew was fooling around with the parking brake switch in flight.

many of you are quoting incidents with engine failures etc...

this was a brake fire after a hard landing. it isn't a chinese fire drill. sacramento, the state capitol of the largest of the US states *population, and is a capable modern airport.

and the article I read says that the injuries all came from using the slide.

wait for the stairs, unless the danger is of a much higher magnitude.

And back in the old days, we carried our stairs with us on the B737, B727, and the DC9...heck the DC9 had two stairways, forwar4d and ventral...maybe the 727 too.
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 06:44
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protectthehornet

You state:
now, there have been times where an evacuation wasn't done and people died (airtours/british)...but that was after a catostrophic uncontained engine failure and a rejected takeoff.
An evacuation was carried out as promptly as possible. See this report here:
ASN Aircraft accident Boeing 737-236 G-BGJL Manchester International Airport (MAN)

I quote from that text:
At 25 seconds past the 'thud' (and 20 seconds before the aircraft stopped) the crew decided to evacuate via the starboard side. The 737 was decelerating through 36 knots then and the captain warned the cabin crew about the evacuation six seconds later.

Regards
Exeng
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 06:45
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Since you weren't there "hornet", your speculation, and "what I would have done" comments are a bit silly don't you think??
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 07:23
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Very unfair to comment on whether the right or wrong decision to evacuate. For a start there is usually no right or wrong, it was just a valid decision, on information available to whoever ordered the evac (if anyone).

Injuries: I would expect 1 or 2 serious injuries from an Evac - that is my "expectation", and by serious, I am probably tending towards broken limbs etc. We'll see later (after the pPrune instant enquiry dies down) how many of the 15 only have a small sprain / abrasion / just enough for a lawyer

So really just echoing Jasavir

NMoD
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 11:31
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Maybe the two in the pointy end gave MAX Autobrake ago!!!???
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 14:02
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ironbutt57. my comment isn't silly at all. it is a warning to fellow pilots to be careful ordering an evacuation. For over a dozen years my airline has been teaching us to be careful about such things and also to avoid uncommanded evacuations initiated by passengers.

the facts as reported in published reports are:

the passengers DIDN'T know there was an emergency/fire until told by the crew.
15 people were injured, 5 seriously enough to be taken to the hospital.

And while you might be ready at a moment's notice to jump down a slide, there are elderly people out there who might break a hip doing so and have their lives harmed in the long term.

(exeng...sorry for my mistake. one article I read on the subject indicated that the crew told the passengers to remain seated...and that they did so. the air tours accident also taught us all how important it is to consider the wind in such situations.)


isn't it a bit odd, most every airline I've heard of shows a nice little film about brake fires/tire fires etc. Done perhaps by boeing during testing. No one ever panicked and hit the slides.

No Ironbutt...not for one moment is the: I wasn't there factor playing into my posts.

Are you a pilot? An airline pilot? haven't you been briefed/taught about such things?

just under 20 percent of the people on board were injured. the plane is still intact. using my judgement would have had NO ONE injured and the plane intact.
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Old 27th Aug 2010, 17:46
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Pretty sad

when a bunch of airline pilots cant agree on something as simple as when to evacuate.

Fire = evacuate
Flashover takes about 90 seconds and everyone is dead with their hands in the overhead lockers trying to retrieve their 'gold fish'.
 

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