Airblue down near Islamabad
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Captain was ex-PIA 747 skipper - just retired recently - so experienced no doubt about it. F/O was likely ex-airforce (dont quote me on that)
Airblue has been facing financial difficulties in the past - the status of their order of 14 new A320s is 'unknown'. Brand new A320 been parked at Tolouse for over a year, not delivered yet. And they have (or had) a total of 3 A321s, AP-BJA, BJB, BRJ plus 2 A319s. Down to 4 aircraft now sadly...........
edit - the ill fated aircraft was AP-BJB; ex D-ARFA, D-ALAN
Airblue has been facing financial difficulties in the past - the status of their order of 14 new A320s is 'unknown'. Brand new A320 been parked at Tolouse for over a year, not delivered yet. And they have (or had) a total of 3 A321s, AP-BJA, BJB, BRJ plus 2 A319s. Down to 4 aircraft now sadly...........
edit - the ill fated aircraft was AP-BJB; ex D-ARFA, D-ALAN
Last edited by SV_741_India_Bravo; 28th Jul 2010 at 10:15.
Eye witness accounts from the link above;
The presence of survivors also suggests a lower energy crash.
Two zoo keepers nearby the crash site sold Xinhua that they saw the plane taking very low flight brushing the trees on the ground and the pilots were trying desperately to take the nose up but failed.
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it seems that the flight originated from Manchester with fuel stop in Trabzon, via Karachi, then Islamabad with two missed approaches and then diversion to Lahore. Crew fatigue might played a role?
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I suppose fatigue played a major role in that crash. The same crew was coming from MAN with a stop in Trabzon; so arriving in ISB they were exhausted; not a good start for an IMC approach, with terrain around: so:
- fatigue
- IMC / rain showers
- high ground
all well known causal / circumstantial factors for a CFIT.
FBW390
- fatigue
- IMC / rain showers
- high ground
all well known causal / circumstantial factors for a CFIT.
FBW390
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Originally Posted by SV_741_India_Bravo
edit - the ill fated aircraft was AP-BJB; ex D-ARFA, D-ALAN
Registration AP-BJB, msn 1218, IAE V2533.
Originally delivered in 2000, leased to airblue in 2006, 34,000 hours, 13,500 flights.
That's all so far.
Bernd
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AP-BJB
Further to speculation by earlier posters, it is unlikely that this flight originated in Manchester.
Last night's ABQ221 is reported to have left MAN at 22:28, operated by AP-BJA. If this information is confirmed, then AP-BJB was NOT operating the Manchester - Trabzon - Islamabad scheduled service.
Last night's ABQ221 is reported to have left MAN at 22:28, operated by AP-BJA. If this information is confirmed, then AP-BJB was NOT operating the Manchester - Trabzon - Islamabad scheduled service.
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Wikipedia site: Airblue Flight 202 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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on the Manchester - Trabzon - Islamabad route, airblue does a fuel stop plus a crew change at Trabzon. they have no shortage of crew infact the fleet is overcrewed.
the flights was ED202 from KHI to ISB. those hills are about 7NM north of the field
there are suggestions that he was doing a circle to land for 12 and by the looks of it they lost the field while breaking off to th right from the ILS. the impact point and height is in line with this. impact height is around 3000 feet (field elevation 1668) and crash site is 35 to 40 degree off runway 30. the hills are appx 7nm from the field
did my training out there, its not challenging as some might suggest.
sad day for aviation in Pakistan
the flights was ED202 from KHI to ISB. those hills are about 7NM north of the field
there are suggestions that he was doing a circle to land for 12 and by the looks of it they lost the field while breaking off to th right from the ILS. the impact point and height is in line with this. impact height is around 3000 feet (field elevation 1668) and crash site is 35 to 40 degree off runway 30. the hills are appx 7nm from the field
did my training out there, its not challenging as some might suggest.
sad day for aviation in Pakistan
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Circle to land? OK. Then if you loose visual contact with the ground: go-around is mandatory!!
As well: I suppose this A321 was equipped with GPWS: then before reaching the hills the crew has a "" terrain-terrain pull up " warning: go-around is mandatory!!
Has a GA been initiated? too late? Not agressive enough?
FBW 390
As well: I suppose this A321 was equipped with GPWS: then before reaching the hills the crew has a "" terrain-terrain pull up " warning: go-around is mandatory!!
Has a GA been initiated? too late? Not agressive enough?
FBW 390
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reminder and correction:
On GPWS warning it is a memory item and not a GA :
AP off Side stick full aft TOGA pwr simultaneously
Spd brakes check retracted Wings:level
Generally the GPWS warning will be early enough to clear the obstacles /hills with this procedure which is a memory item, and of course mandatory.
FBW 390
AP off Side stick full aft TOGA pwr simultaneously
Spd brakes check retracted Wings:level
Generally the GPWS warning will be early enough to clear the obstacles /hills with this procedure which is a memory item, and of course mandatory.
FBW 390
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@ FBW390
thats what im wondering as well.
also the terrain elevation is increasing as you go north of the field so they should have gotten the warning just over half way to the hills.
thats what im wondering as well.
also the terrain elevation is increasing as you go north of the field so they should have gotten the warning just over half way to the hills.
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I don't understand how, rain or no, an experienced pilot can take a plane into a restricted flight area, and then directly into terrain, during broad daylight! Is this another FMC TOGA issue? And why cannot this plane clear a short, if undoubtedly steep ridge line?? Hard times for Airbus.
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deSitter: it has nothing to do with Airbus!!! IF the pilots don' t respond to a GPWS worning then it flies in the mountain; would it be A or B or else!
IF the GPWS is inop then be even more cautious to high ground! A or B ...
And FMC ( called FMGC in Airbus ) has nothing to do with TOGA pwr. If you put the throttles full fwd they are in the TOGA detent and TOGA pwr is applied. It works.
FBW390
IF the GPWS is inop then be even more cautious to high ground! A or B ...
And FMC ( called FMGC in Airbus ) has nothing to do with TOGA pwr. If you put the throttles full fwd they are in the TOGA detent and TOGA pwr is applied. It works.
FBW390
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deSitter:
experienced pilots aren' t obviously excellent. Most are good or excellent,
I' ve seen some very bad. FO or Capt. As well some young FOs are excellent and will detect the aircraft, would it be Airbus or Boeing, should not be flying there in daylight IMC. And yes, the A321 is a powerful aircraft which will clear a hill. If the pilot orders it.
Experience alone is not everything. Initial training and recurrent training is very important. Could be very good, inexistant or a joke. Depends where you fly or have flown. But does not depend on A or B!
FBW390
experienced pilots aren' t obviously excellent. Most are good or excellent,
I' ve seen some very bad. FO or Capt. As well some young FOs are excellent and will detect the aircraft, would it be Airbus or Boeing, should not be flying there in daylight IMC. And yes, the A321 is a powerful aircraft which will clear a hill. If the pilot orders it.
Experience alone is not everything. Initial training and recurrent training is very important. Could be very good, inexistant or a joke. Depends where you fly or have flown. But does not depend on A or B!
FBW390
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Update Airblue crash
Media reports suggests that Pilot was asked to go around and He was in process of going around. Two flights landed before in front of him and the Run was Busy and that was the reason for go around. According to DG CAA {Civil Aviation Authority}
According to BBC reports one of the witness who saw this plane earlier wondered why this plane is flying Low and why Here ? He according to BBC, was not aware that this was the route Passenger Plane usually take when they come to ISB. So there are some questions that Investigators should look. Unconfirmed reports : One of the Black Box has been recovered.
According to BBC reports one of the witness who saw this plane earlier wondered why this plane is flying Low and why Here ? He according to BBC, was not aware that this was the route Passenger Plane usually take when they come to ISB. So there are some questions that Investigators should look. Unconfirmed reports : One of the Black Box has been recovered.