Go slams BMI's attempt to block low fares
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Go slams BMI's attempt to block low fares
Posted on <a href="http://www.go-fly.com" target="_blank">www.go-fly.com</a> on 7th January 2002:
Go slams BMI's attempt to block low fares
In a clear attempt to prevent consumer choice, BMI has lodged an official objection to Go's application to fly between East Midlands Airport and Prague, one of Europe's most popular citybreak
destinations.
This is despite the fact that BMI does not fly - and has never been interested in flying - between East Midlands and Prague.
"This is an absolutely outrageous move by BMI," says David Magliano, sales and marketing director at Go.
"BMI does not fly to Prague and obviously doesn't want anyone else to either. We've had over a thousand requests from people in the Midlands
asking us to fly to Prague.
"Go is successful because we give customers what they want. BMI is treating the local population with arrogance and contempt in trying to
deprive them of choice.
"Come on Michael Bishop, tell us why you object. Why do you want to deny the Midlands a convenient, low-priced way of getting to Prague?
"We're confident we'll succeed despite the hurdles BMI tries to place in our way. But this is evidence that BMI is against consumer choice
and in favour of high prices. At last we know what the 'BM' in their name stands for - 'Bloody Minded'."
Go slams BMI's attempt to block low fares
In a clear attempt to prevent consumer choice, BMI has lodged an official objection to Go's application to fly between East Midlands Airport and Prague, one of Europe's most popular citybreak
destinations.
This is despite the fact that BMI does not fly - and has never been interested in flying - between East Midlands and Prague.
"This is an absolutely outrageous move by BMI," says David Magliano, sales and marketing director at Go.
"BMI does not fly to Prague and obviously doesn't want anyone else to either. We've had over a thousand requests from people in the Midlands
asking us to fly to Prague.
"Go is successful because we give customers what they want. BMI is treating the local population with arrogance and contempt in trying to
deprive them of choice.
"Come on Michael Bishop, tell us why you object. Why do you want to deny the Midlands a convenient, low-priced way of getting to Prague?
"We're confident we'll succeed despite the hurdles BMI tries to place in our way. But this is evidence that BMI is against consumer choice
and in favour of high prices. At last we know what the 'BM' in their name stands for - 'Bloody Minded'."
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<img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Oooops! Just answered my own question...this from the Go website: (even so, I'm not sure what grounds bmi would have to object)
Notes:
As Prague is outside the European Economic Area, airlines need to apply to the authorities in the UK and the Czech Republic in order to fly the route. This is not the case for any of Go's other current destinations, all of which are within the EEA.
Go has every reason to believe that the licence will be granted as the application falls within the guidelines set out in the existing UK-Czech Republic Air Services Agreement.
Those members of the public wishing to make their feelings known to the CAA should do so via the Air Transport Users Council, CAA House, 45-59 Kingsway, London WC2B 6TE.
[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: Zulu ]</p>
Oooops! Just answered my own question...this from the Go website: (even so, I'm not sure what grounds bmi would have to object)
Notes:
As Prague is outside the European Economic Area, airlines need to apply to the authorities in the UK and the Czech Republic in order to fly the route. This is not the case for any of Go's other current destinations, all of which are within the EEA.
Go has every reason to believe that the licence will be granted as the application falls within the guidelines set out in the existing UK-Czech Republic Air Services Agreement.
Those members of the public wishing to make their feelings known to the CAA should do so via the Air Transport Users Council, CAA House, 45-59 Kingsway, London WC2B 6TE.
[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: Zulu ]</p>
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EMA to bmi is sacred ground. They are always infavour of competion EXCEPT at EMA.
When Business Air came a little close for comfort they brought them. When KLMuk started serving AMS from EMA dealing was done to get them off the route.
If your a charter carrier it seems OK but scheduled they kick up.
What bmi are most worried about will be the crews especially the cabin crew leaving them to Go, where they get paid a livable salary with no cr@p.
I say if bmi don`t like Go on the PRG route, how about Go operating EMA-GLA, EDI, AGP, BFS, and so on. Bet paxs will prefer a 737 to a sweaty Fokker or cramped 145.
When Business Air came a little close for comfort they brought them. When KLMuk started serving AMS from EMA dealing was done to get them off the route.
If your a charter carrier it seems OK but scheduled they kick up.
What bmi are most worried about will be the crews especially the cabin crew leaving them to Go, where they get paid a livable salary with no cr@p.
I say if bmi don`t like Go on the PRG route, how about Go operating EMA-GLA, EDI, AGP, BFS, and so on. Bet paxs will prefer a 737 to a sweaty Fokker or cramped 145.
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[quote]We've had over a thousand requests from people in the Midlands
asking us to fly to Prague.
<hr></blockquote>
Ohhh... Over a thousand people? Out of the x million that live in the Midlands? That'll be a busy route then! Get your place in the queue for tickets now everybody.
Go making mountains out of molehills again? Or just making publicity out of non-stories al la Easyryan jet...
[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: Busta Level ]</p>
asking us to fly to Prague.
<hr></blockquote>
Ohhh... Over a thousand people? Out of the x million that live in the Midlands? That'll be a busy route then! Get your place in the queue for tickets now everybody.
Go making mountains out of molehills again? Or just making publicity out of non-stories al la Easyryan jet...
[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: Busta Level ]</p>
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I will fall over backwards with laughter when Michael Bishop finally gets a healthy dose of competition. The nations second city *finally* gets a low cost airline.
BHX is similarly screwed. Just look what easyJet did for Liverpool...
PS
BHX is similarly screwed. Just look what easyJet did for Liverpool...
PS
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Busta Level - as you are a well known albeit junior BMI pilot do you not think that your comments appear to be in the very finest traditions of Sour Grapes?
I am sorry that another airline is going to park its tanks on your lawn. I am sorry that you will lose your newly gained employment as they systematically take apart your business. But you charge too much for a service that no-one wants.
The good people of the Midlands are mightly impressed that they have a low cost airline. They see this as A Good Thing. They also see Go's billboards, Cinema ads, Tv ads, Newspaper ads, bus shelter ads, bus ads, taxi ads, radio ads (well hear at least) and newspaper story placements. The people of Birmingham know more about an airline called Go than they do about an airline called Jersey - sorry - British European Airways even though the former doesn't start serving them for another 3 months and the latter has been there for the best part of 2 decades...
This is the future, cool airlines, selling cheap product at good enough quality direct to the customer. The futures Bright, the futures Orange with a Guinness to Go.
PS
I am sorry that another airline is going to park its tanks on your lawn. I am sorry that you will lose your newly gained employment as they systematically take apart your business. But you charge too much for a service that no-one wants.
The good people of the Midlands are mightly impressed that they have a low cost airline. They see this as A Good Thing. They also see Go's billboards, Cinema ads, Tv ads, Newspaper ads, bus shelter ads, bus ads, taxi ads, radio ads (well hear at least) and newspaper story placements. The people of Birmingham know more about an airline called Go than they do about an airline called Jersey - sorry - British European Airways even though the former doesn't start serving them for another 3 months and the latter has been there for the best part of 2 decades...
This is the future, cool airlines, selling cheap product at good enough quality direct to the customer. The futures Bright, the futures Orange with a Guinness to Go.
PS
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I Say good luck GO!!. After all you have an airline that has come from nothing to fame in no time at all. Although I think you have to admit BMI is largly resposible for the fact EMA is large enough to fly a 737 into. I Know you at the low costs are all very proud of your new shiny aeroplanes, but be warned, quick to rise historically quick to fall. If there is only enough space for only one successful low cost in the US how can we justify Four in the UK?......
Decide if it is going to be yours as you have a mortgage to pay.
Decide if it is going to be yours as you have a mortgage to pay.
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Copied from the bmi web site-
7 January 2002
Statement re bmi british midland application for East Midlands to Prague licence
Any European Economic Area (EEA) airline is permitted to operate from East Midlands Airport to any other airport within the EEA. bmi british midland is in no way seeking to inhibit the ability of GO, or any other UK airline, to introduce competitive services.
However, all air services outside the EEA are still controlled by agreements between the respective governments, such as the UK and the Czech Republic - these are known as air service agreements.
bmi’s own experience of air services between the UK and Czech Republic has demonstrated that the agreement remains highly restrictive. For example from 29 October 1995 to 1 May 2000, bmi operated from London Heathrow to Prague with up to nine flights per week. Our continued applications to increase this to a more competitive two flights per day were continually rejected by the Czech government. This inability to develop the route forced bmi to withdraw its services, as it could not compete effectively at Heathrow against the national carriers (Czech Airlines and British Airways) who enjoyed greater frequencies.
Contrary to GO’s accusation, bmi has already itself applied for a route license to launch services between East Midlands Airport and Prague. The reason for our objection to the application by GO, and indeed any other similar application, is to seek clarification from the UK Department of Transport, Local Government and the Regions (DTLR) regarding the availability of future capacity on all routes between the UK and the Czech Republic including services from East Midlands Airport to Prague.
GO, as an established UK airline, is well aware that such actions are a routine aspect of the CAA licensing procedures. Indeed in 1999 GO itself objected to bmi’s application to introduce services from Stansted to Prague in competition with GO.
The old maxim "two sides to every story" springs to mind. The last paragraph's interesting!
7 January 2002
Statement re bmi british midland application for East Midlands to Prague licence
Any European Economic Area (EEA) airline is permitted to operate from East Midlands Airport to any other airport within the EEA. bmi british midland is in no way seeking to inhibit the ability of GO, or any other UK airline, to introduce competitive services.
However, all air services outside the EEA are still controlled by agreements between the respective governments, such as the UK and the Czech Republic - these are known as air service agreements.
bmi’s own experience of air services between the UK and Czech Republic has demonstrated that the agreement remains highly restrictive. For example from 29 October 1995 to 1 May 2000, bmi operated from London Heathrow to Prague with up to nine flights per week. Our continued applications to increase this to a more competitive two flights per day were continually rejected by the Czech government. This inability to develop the route forced bmi to withdraw its services, as it could not compete effectively at Heathrow against the national carriers (Czech Airlines and British Airways) who enjoyed greater frequencies.
Contrary to GO’s accusation, bmi has already itself applied for a route license to launch services between East Midlands Airport and Prague. The reason for our objection to the application by GO, and indeed any other similar application, is to seek clarification from the UK Department of Transport, Local Government and the Regions (DTLR) regarding the availability of future capacity on all routes between the UK and the Czech Republic including services from East Midlands Airport to Prague.
GO, as an established UK airline, is well aware that such actions are a routine aspect of the CAA licensing procedures. Indeed in 1999 GO itself objected to bmi’s application to introduce services from Stansted to Prague in competition with GO.
The old maxim "two sides to every story" springs to mind. The last paragraph's interesting!
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Why does the parentage matter? The company is privately owned with extensive employee ownership from what I understand to be a large share option scheme.
Much more attractive a model than a company owned by a multi millionaire tycoon in my opinion.
Its extraordinary that people in the Midlands are always having to drive to Luton, Stansted and Liverpool to get cheap flights. The arrival of low cost will grow the market not merely steal it from established carriers. When was the last time we saw any BMI advertising in the Midlands enticing us to Go Ski, Go Sizzle or indeed go anywhere?
Stelios, MOL and Go are at least in peoples faces banging the drum for aviation transport.
I think EMA has a very bright future. Great facilities airside, plenty of room to expand, no shortage of local cheap labour, it has a huge catchement area. Its built a solid business based on three legs - huge night frieght, a full service airline with global codeshare and now a low cost service. All they really lack is a rail link and a flashy arrival terminal. Both readily rectifiable...
However, as far as domestic routes I think BMI will have a short and bloody battle on its hands which it will loose.
Example:
Say you want to go from EMA to Glasgow a week tommorrow. You want to travel up in the morning and back the following day at the end of the working day giving you 2 working days on business.
Using Go figures from Bristol (EMA not yet available) and comparing them to BMI you get the following quotes:
BMI - Jan 15th Depart 07.00 to GLA Rtn 16th Jan 16.50 ** £365.10
GO - Jan 15th Depart 07.00 to GLA Rtn 16th Jan 18.30 ** £120.00
Now the BMI ticket is more readily transferrable to a different time/day without penalty. If you want the same standard of fully flexible business fare then Go charge a premium. They want another £20. So thats £365 plays £140. With the £225 saving you could have a Merecedes taxi you to and from the airport and stay in a much nicer hotel. Or travel twice or three times more often. Safeguarding jobs in the flightdeck, cabin and airport...
I wish BMI no ill - I have used them twice and they were very good. With easyJet taking on BA at Gatwick and Go taking on BMI at East Midlands we are entering an interesting new phase of the low cost explosion. Whether they fall flat on their faces or clean up I cannot say for sure. But looking at the sums above I know which way I would bet were I forced to.
Good for the industry though,
PS
Much more attractive a model than a company owned by a multi millionaire tycoon in my opinion.
Its extraordinary that people in the Midlands are always having to drive to Luton, Stansted and Liverpool to get cheap flights. The arrival of low cost will grow the market not merely steal it from established carriers. When was the last time we saw any BMI advertising in the Midlands enticing us to Go Ski, Go Sizzle or indeed go anywhere?
Stelios, MOL and Go are at least in peoples faces banging the drum for aviation transport.
I think EMA has a very bright future. Great facilities airside, plenty of room to expand, no shortage of local cheap labour, it has a huge catchement area. Its built a solid business based on three legs - huge night frieght, a full service airline with global codeshare and now a low cost service. All they really lack is a rail link and a flashy arrival terminal. Both readily rectifiable...
However, as far as domestic routes I think BMI will have a short and bloody battle on its hands which it will loose.
Example:
Say you want to go from EMA to Glasgow a week tommorrow. You want to travel up in the morning and back the following day at the end of the working day giving you 2 working days on business.
Using Go figures from Bristol (EMA not yet available) and comparing them to BMI you get the following quotes:
BMI - Jan 15th Depart 07.00 to GLA Rtn 16th Jan 16.50 ** £365.10
GO - Jan 15th Depart 07.00 to GLA Rtn 16th Jan 18.30 ** £120.00
Now the BMI ticket is more readily transferrable to a different time/day without penalty. If you want the same standard of fully flexible business fare then Go charge a premium. They want another £20. So thats £365 plays £140. With the £225 saving you could have a Merecedes taxi you to and from the airport and stay in a much nicer hotel. Or travel twice or three times more often. Safeguarding jobs in the flightdeck, cabin and airport...
I wish BMI no ill - I have used them twice and they were very good. With easyJet taking on BA at Gatwick and Go taking on BMI at East Midlands we are entering an interesting new phase of the low cost explosion. Whether they fall flat on their faces or clean up I cannot say for sure. But looking at the sums above I know which way I would bet were I forced to.
Good for the industry though,
PS
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Low cost is not always low cost some of it is clever advertising.
I can go to Spain in March with BA for £200 pounds less than it would have been with GO, and I get a meal large comfortable aircraft and plenty of leg room.
I can go to Spain in March with BA for £200 pounds less than it would have been with GO, and I get a meal large comfortable aircraft and plenty of leg room.
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Good old BA then. Just out of curiosity why will you get more leg room? Last time I flew BA (actually GB) out of Spain they were using a lovely new Airbus with World of Leather interior but the seat pitch was exactly like easyJets I noted. Still, the rubber chicken fajhita and mixed fruit cocktail were great. Not.
Looking at BA BMI and GO for travel to Malaga out on Sat 16th March and coming back a week later I just got:
£180 GO - Bristol
£205 BA - Gatwick
£217 BMI - East Midlands
Which is not a lot of difference. You'd certainly just pick the nearest airport I imagine.
PS
Looking at BA BMI and GO for travel to Malaga out on Sat 16th March and coming back a week later I just got:
£180 GO - Bristol
£205 BA - Gatwick
£217 BMI - East Midlands
Which is not a lot of difference. You'd certainly just pick the nearest airport I imagine.
PS
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Try GB(BA) LGW-AGP same dates £99.00, plus you get
a decent service thrown in for that price also not shoehorned in an orange tube. If you know anyone can get you a hotline ticket its even cheaper.£89.00 firm ticket.
Where does all this bull---t come from with these so called low fares operators. I have never been able to get a £27.00 ticket to "go on the piste" or anywhere else, nor have I heard of anyone who has. Ezy LUT to BFS just before xmas, EZY web site scanned in Oct/NOV over several dates, best price £328.00. I kid you not.
a decent service thrown in for that price also not shoehorned in an orange tube. If you know anyone can get you a hotline ticket its even cheaper.£89.00 firm ticket.
Where does all this bull---t come from with these so called low fares operators. I have never been able to get a £27.00 ticket to "go on the piste" or anywhere else, nor have I heard of anyone who has. Ezy LUT to BFS just before xmas, EZY web site scanned in Oct/NOV over several dates, best price £328.00. I kid you not.
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Having worked for Steve Jones - EMA's Commercial Director, I can't see him letting BMI stop the airport from getting this new business...
In these present times of uncertainty, every bit of new business and confidence in the public to fly is good for everyone...
In these present times of uncertainty, every bit of new business and confidence in the public to fly is good for everyone...
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As for the abundance of cheap local labour at EMA,SMB has already found it ,its called bmi Regional! The rail link planned for EMA is going to terminate somewhere near to the power station around 3DME on the approach to rnwy 27 with no planned link into the airport youll have to bus the last bit, try that on the weekend of the GP or world superbikes! quicker to walk it in!
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Peter Skelington,
I'm sorry, I did not realise that you speak for the people of the Midlands as a whole. I don't think I'm the one with the sour grapes issue! You seem to be very anti-bmi?
Where do you get off having a Go (get it?!) at me personally? Did I pick on you? No? Then back off. I'm glad you are secure in your job - I hate to see anyone worry about thier employment/mortgage/family etc etc. FYI I've been in the job for nigh on four years now - so I'm not that fresh!
I'm sure you wouldn't fight to try and save your job...
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Busta Level ]</p>
I'm sorry, I did not realise that you speak for the people of the Midlands as a whole. I don't think I'm the one with the sour grapes issue! You seem to be very anti-bmi?
Where do you get off having a Go (get it?!) at me personally? Did I pick on you? No? Then back off. I'm glad you are secure in your job - I hate to see anyone worry about thier employment/mortgage/family etc etc. FYI I've been in the job for nigh on four years now - so I'm not that fresh!
I'm sure you wouldn't fight to try and save your job...
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Busta Level ]</p>
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Sinbad3000 - strangely out of Liverpool the same AGP trip on the 16th/23rd is £160 not £100 ( assuming you don't want to travel at midnight into LPL).
Are the Gatwick fares promotional due to it being a new base/route for easy perhaps? Good value though regardless.
Mid week changes things a lot! <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Out to Malaga early morning on Mon, rtn in the afternoon of the Fri:
GO - £125.80 out of Stansted <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
easyJet - £130.00 out of Liverpool <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
BA - £770.50 out of Gatwick <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
It seems that the full service boys can only afford to compete with low cost on weekends.
The figures speak for themselves. The only question is how can BA ( in this case GB ) get anyone on board at these differentials???
PS
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Peter Skellan ]</p>
Are the Gatwick fares promotional due to it being a new base/route for easy perhaps? Good value though regardless.
Mid week changes things a lot! <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Out to Malaga early morning on Mon, rtn in the afternoon of the Fri:
GO - £125.80 out of Stansted <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
easyJet - £130.00 out of Liverpool <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
BA - £770.50 out of Gatwick <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
It seems that the full service boys can only afford to compete with low cost on weekends.
The figures speak for themselves. The only question is how can BA ( in this case GB ) get anyone on board at these differentials???
PS
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Peter Skellan ]</p>