Gun carrying Passengers
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Gun carrying Passengers
The thread on the secret service agent denied boarding because of discrepancies in his paperwork has become a little bogged down in the racial angle.
Would anyone like to comment on whether the US policy of allowing off-duty law-enforcement personnel to carry firearms on board is a good idea? There seem to be two very obvious drawbacks. firstly, how difficult would it be to obtain false documents to "permit" a gun on board. Second it would only take a moments inattention to place a gun in the wrong hands.
This secret service agent wasn't protecting the president on this flight. Why did he need to be carrying a gun in the first place?
Would anyone like to comment on whether the US policy of allowing off-duty law-enforcement personnel to carry firearms on board is a good idea? There seem to be two very obvious drawbacks. firstly, how difficult would it be to obtain false documents to "permit" a gun on board. Second it would only take a moments inattention to place a gun in the wrong hands.
This secret service agent wasn't protecting the president on this flight. Why did he need to be carrying a gun in the first place?
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The following Federal agencies may be armed during flight -whether on official business or not.
-Bureau of Printing and Engraving
-Coast Guard
-Customs
-Defense Nuclear Agency
-Dept of Agriculture (Poultry Inspectors, etc)
-Dept of Commerce
-Dept of Education
-Dept of Health and Human Services
-Dept of Labor
-Dept of State
-Dept of the Air Force/Army/Navy
-Dept of the Interior
-FBI
-General Services Administration
-Postal Service
-Secret Service
-Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
-FAA
-IRS
-Dept of Transportation
-CIA
-DOD
-Dept of Energy
-Dept of Housing and Urban Development
-Dept of State
-Dept of the Treasury
-National Security Agency
-DEA
-Federal Prison System
-Federal Protective Service
-Marshals Service
-Smithsonian Institution
Federal Aviation
Administration
October 5, 2001
Law Enforcement Executive
Dear Colleague:
This letter provides information that may be useful to you and those agents or officers
of your agency or department who travel armed as ticketed passengers on commercial
aircraft. As a result of the tragic events of September 11, many long-standing policies,
procedures and standard practices must be changed. The Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA) has worked with the aviation industry and the U.S. law
enforcement community to revise regulations and guidance governing law enforcement
officers (LEO) traveling armed.
The changes to the FAA regulation (14 Code Federal Regulations (CFR) part 108)
governing LEOs flying armed were published on July 17, 2001, and become effective
November 14, 2001 (see Federal Register, Vol. 66, page 37330). While the rule is not
yet effective, it reflects the FAA's policy. One of the many changes is a requirement
that all LEOs who have a need to fly armed complete the FAA training "Law
Enforcement Officers Flying Armed" prior to traveling armed on board commercial
aircraft. We understand that most or all Federal LEOs who fly armed have had this
training. LEOs who have had the current training may continue to fly until agencies
have had the opportunity to provide updated training. Changes to the training package
are underway and will be distributed soon. The events of September 11 have altered
how we look at terrorist activity and have resulted in far-reaching and immediate
changes.
The enclosed pages provide information that may be helpful for an immediate update
on the subject of LEOs flying armed. The first enclosure is a basic statement as to
FAA's policy regarding LEOs traveling armed. It highlights changes that allow Federal
agents to travel armed under their agencywide directive. It also reflects other regulatory changes (new section 108.219) and provides information that the FAA considers necessary for each law enforcement agency and its officers who fly armed.
The second enclosure is a copy of 14 CFR 108.219, Carriage of accessible weapons, the
section of the regulations that will govern such travel.
Please pass on the information contained in this letter to each and every LEO or agent
under your employ who has a need to fly armed.
Sincerely
Michael A Canavan
Associate Administrator for Civil Aviation
Security
Enclosures
INFORMATION FROM THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION
ARMED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS
ABOARD AIR CARRIER AIRCRAFT
The FAA recognizes that law enforcement officers at times have the need to fly armed.
For state and local LEO's, the regulation provides a process by which they may gain
authority to fly aboard a particular flight in an armed status in conjunction with a
specific duty assignment. 14 CFR 108.219 (Federal Register, Vol. 66, page 27330)
recognizes that federal law enforcement officers have nationwide jurisdiction. The
FAA authorizes Federal law enforcement officers to carry firearms aboard aircraft
whether or not on official travel, and armed in accordance with an agency-wide policy
governing that type of travel established by the employing agency by directive or policy
statement.
WHILE FLYING ARMED:
1. It is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL that you fulfill, in a timely manner, your
obligation to notify the air carrier in advance of your intended travel. Your check-
in process must be accomplished in full compliance with FAA requirements and air
carrier policy.
2. You must use discretion to avoid alarming passengers or crew by display of the
firearm.
3. If you are armed and traveling by air carrier, DO NOT SURRENDER YOUR
FIREARM TO ANYONE.
4. If you cannot resolve a problem with any representative of the air carrier, to include
the captain of an aircraft prior to departure, you should immediately request the
assistance of the air carrier's GROUND SECURITY COORDINATOR or
STATION MANAGER.
5. State and local officers must have a letter from their department authorizing the
armed travel and detailing the itinerary. Federal agents do not need a letter from
their agency to travel armed.
Sec. 108.219 Carriage of accessible weapons.
(a) Flights for which screening is conducted. The provisions of Sec. 108.201(e), with
respect to accessible deadly or dangerous weapons, do not apply to a law
enforcement officer (LEO) aboard a flight for which screening is required if the
requirements of this section are met.
This paragraph (a) does not apply to a Federal Air Marshal on duty status under Sec.
108.223.
(1) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, the armed LEO shall meet the
following requirements: (i) Be a Federal law enforcement officer or a full-time
municipal, county, or state law enforcement officer who is a direct employee of a
government agency. (ii) Be sworn and commissioned to enforce criminal statutes or
immigration statutes. (iii) Be authorized by the employing agency to have the
weapon in connection with assigned duties. (iv) Has completed the training
program Law Enforcement Officers Flying Armed.''
(2) In addition to the requirements of paragraph (a)(1) of this section, the armed LEO
must have a need to have the weapon accessible from the time he or she would
otherwise check the weapon until the time it would be claimed after deplaning. The
need to have the weapon accessible shall be determined by the employing agency,
department, or service and be based on one of the following: (i) The provision of
protective duty, for instance, assigned to a principal or advance team, or on travel
required to be prepared to engage in a protective function. (ii) The conduct of a
hazardous surveillance operation. (iii) On official travel required to report to
another location, armed and prepared for duty. (iv) Employed as a Federal LEO,
whether or not on official travel, and armed in accordance with an agency-wide
policy governing that type of travel established by the employing agency by
directive or policy statement. (v) Control of a prisoner, in accordance with Sec.
108.221, or an armed LEO on a round trip ticket returning from escorting, or
traveling to pick up, a prisoner. (vi)
FAA Federal Air Marshal on duty status.
(3) The armed LEO shall comply with the following notification requirements: (i) All
armed LEOs shall notify the aircraft operator of the flight(s) on which he or she
needs to have the weapon accessible at least 1 hour, or in an emergency as soon as
practicable, before departure. (ii) Identify himself or herself to the aircraft operator
by presenting credentials that include a clear full-face picture, the signature of the
armed LEO, and the signature of the authorizing official of the agency, service, or
department or the official seal of the agency, service, or department. A badge,
shield, or similar device may not be used, or accepted, as the sole means of
identification. (iii) If the armed LEO is a State, county, or municipal law
enforcement officer, he or she shall present an original letter of authority, signed by
an authorizing official from his or her employing agency, service or department,
confirming the need to travel armed and detailing the itinerary of the travel while
armed. (iv) If the armed LEO is an escort for a foreign official then this paragraph
(a)(3) may be satisfied by a State Department notification.
(4) The aircraft operator shall do the following: (i) Obtain information or
documentation required in paragraphs (a)(3)(ii), (iii), and (iv) of this section. (ii)
Advise the armed LEO, before boarding, of the aircraft operator's procedures for
carrying out this section. (iii) Have the LEO confirm he/she has completed the
training program Law Enforcement Officers Flying Armed'' as required by the
FAA, unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator. (iv) Ensure that the
identity of the armed LEO is known to the appropriate personnel who are
responsible for security during the boarding of the aircraft. (v) Notify the pilot in
command and other appropriate crewmembers, of the location of each armed LEO
aboard the aircraft. Notify any other armed LEO of the location of each armed
LEO, including FAM's. Under circumstances described in the security program, the
aircraft operator must not close the doors until the notification is complete. (vi)
Ensure that the information required in paragraphs (a)(3)(i) and (ii) of this section
is furnished to the flight crew of each additional connecting flight by the Ground
Security Coordinator or other designated agent at each location. (b) Flights for
which screening is not conducted.
The provisions of Sec. 108.201(e), with respect to accessible deadly or dangerous
weapons, do not apply to a LEO aboard a flight for which screening is not required if
the requirements of paragraphs (a)(1), (3), and (4) of this section are met. (c) Alcohol.
(1) No aircraft operator may serve any alcoholic beverage to an armed LEO. (2) No
armed LEO may: (i) Consume any alcoholic beverage while aboard an aircraft
operated by an aircraft operator. (ii) Board an aircraft armed if they have consumed an
alcoholic beverage within the previous 8 hours. (d) Location of weapon. (1) Any
person traveling aboard an aircraft while armed shall at all times keep their weapon: (i)
Concealed and out of view, either on their person or in immediate reach, if the armed
LEO is not in uniform. (ii) On their person, if the armed LEO is in uniform. (2) No
person may place a weapon in an overhead storage bin.
-Bureau of Printing and Engraving
-Coast Guard
-Customs
-Defense Nuclear Agency
-Dept of Agriculture (Poultry Inspectors, etc)
-Dept of Commerce
-Dept of Education
-Dept of Health and Human Services
-Dept of Labor
-Dept of State
-Dept of the Air Force/Army/Navy
-Dept of the Interior
-FBI
-General Services Administration
-Postal Service
-Secret Service
-Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
-FAA
-IRS
-Dept of Transportation
-CIA
-DOD
-Dept of Energy
-Dept of Housing and Urban Development
-Dept of State
-Dept of the Treasury
-National Security Agency
-DEA
-Federal Prison System
-Federal Protective Service
-Marshals Service
-Smithsonian Institution
Federal Aviation
Administration
October 5, 2001
Law Enforcement Executive
Dear Colleague:
This letter provides information that may be useful to you and those agents or officers
of your agency or department who travel armed as ticketed passengers on commercial
aircraft. As a result of the tragic events of September 11, many long-standing policies,
procedures and standard practices must be changed. The Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA) has worked with the aviation industry and the U.S. law
enforcement community to revise regulations and guidance governing law enforcement
officers (LEO) traveling armed.
The changes to the FAA regulation (14 Code Federal Regulations (CFR) part 108)
governing LEOs flying armed were published on July 17, 2001, and become effective
November 14, 2001 (see Federal Register, Vol. 66, page 37330). While the rule is not
yet effective, it reflects the FAA's policy. One of the many changes is a requirement
that all LEOs who have a need to fly armed complete the FAA training "Law
Enforcement Officers Flying Armed" prior to traveling armed on board commercial
aircraft. We understand that most or all Federal LEOs who fly armed have had this
training. LEOs who have had the current training may continue to fly until agencies
have had the opportunity to provide updated training. Changes to the training package
are underway and will be distributed soon. The events of September 11 have altered
how we look at terrorist activity and have resulted in far-reaching and immediate
changes.
The enclosed pages provide information that may be helpful for an immediate update
on the subject of LEOs flying armed. The first enclosure is a basic statement as to
FAA's policy regarding LEOs traveling armed. It highlights changes that allow Federal
agents to travel armed under their agencywide directive. It also reflects other regulatory changes (new section 108.219) and provides information that the FAA considers necessary for each law enforcement agency and its officers who fly armed.
The second enclosure is a copy of 14 CFR 108.219, Carriage of accessible weapons, the
section of the regulations that will govern such travel.
Please pass on the information contained in this letter to each and every LEO or agent
under your employ who has a need to fly armed.
Sincerely
Michael A Canavan
Associate Administrator for Civil Aviation
Security
Enclosures
INFORMATION FROM THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION
ARMED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS
ABOARD AIR CARRIER AIRCRAFT
The FAA recognizes that law enforcement officers at times have the need to fly armed.
For state and local LEO's, the regulation provides a process by which they may gain
authority to fly aboard a particular flight in an armed status in conjunction with a
specific duty assignment. 14 CFR 108.219 (Federal Register, Vol. 66, page 27330)
recognizes that federal law enforcement officers have nationwide jurisdiction. The
FAA authorizes Federal law enforcement officers to carry firearms aboard aircraft
whether or not on official travel, and armed in accordance with an agency-wide policy
governing that type of travel established by the employing agency by directive or policy
statement.
WHILE FLYING ARMED:
1. It is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL that you fulfill, in a timely manner, your
obligation to notify the air carrier in advance of your intended travel. Your check-
in process must be accomplished in full compliance with FAA requirements and air
carrier policy.
2. You must use discretion to avoid alarming passengers or crew by display of the
firearm.
3. If you are armed and traveling by air carrier, DO NOT SURRENDER YOUR
FIREARM TO ANYONE.
4. If you cannot resolve a problem with any representative of the air carrier, to include
the captain of an aircraft prior to departure, you should immediately request the
assistance of the air carrier's GROUND SECURITY COORDINATOR or
STATION MANAGER.
5. State and local officers must have a letter from their department authorizing the
armed travel and detailing the itinerary. Federal agents do not need a letter from
their agency to travel armed.
Sec. 108.219 Carriage of accessible weapons.
(a) Flights for which screening is conducted. The provisions of Sec. 108.201(e), with
respect to accessible deadly or dangerous weapons, do not apply to a law
enforcement officer (LEO) aboard a flight for which screening is required if the
requirements of this section are met.
This paragraph (a) does not apply to a Federal Air Marshal on duty status under Sec.
108.223.
(1) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, the armed LEO shall meet the
following requirements: (i) Be a Federal law enforcement officer or a full-time
municipal, county, or state law enforcement officer who is a direct employee of a
government agency. (ii) Be sworn and commissioned to enforce criminal statutes or
immigration statutes. (iii) Be authorized by the employing agency to have the
weapon in connection with assigned duties. (iv) Has completed the training
program Law Enforcement Officers Flying Armed.''
(2) In addition to the requirements of paragraph (a)(1) of this section, the armed LEO
must have a need to have the weapon accessible from the time he or she would
otherwise check the weapon until the time it would be claimed after deplaning. The
need to have the weapon accessible shall be determined by the employing agency,
department, or service and be based on one of the following: (i) The provision of
protective duty, for instance, assigned to a principal or advance team, or on travel
required to be prepared to engage in a protective function. (ii) The conduct of a
hazardous surveillance operation. (iii) On official travel required to report to
another location, armed and prepared for duty. (iv) Employed as a Federal LEO,
whether or not on official travel, and armed in accordance with an agency-wide
policy governing that type of travel established by the employing agency by
directive or policy statement. (v) Control of a prisoner, in accordance with Sec.
108.221, or an armed LEO on a round trip ticket returning from escorting, or
traveling to pick up, a prisoner. (vi)
FAA Federal Air Marshal on duty status.
(3) The armed LEO shall comply with the following notification requirements: (i) All
armed LEOs shall notify the aircraft operator of the flight(s) on which he or she
needs to have the weapon accessible at least 1 hour, or in an emergency as soon as
practicable, before departure. (ii) Identify himself or herself to the aircraft operator
by presenting credentials that include a clear full-face picture, the signature of the
armed LEO, and the signature of the authorizing official of the agency, service, or
department or the official seal of the agency, service, or department. A badge,
shield, or similar device may not be used, or accepted, as the sole means of
identification. (iii) If the armed LEO is a State, county, or municipal law
enforcement officer, he or she shall present an original letter of authority, signed by
an authorizing official from his or her employing agency, service or department,
confirming the need to travel armed and detailing the itinerary of the travel while
armed. (iv) If the armed LEO is an escort for a foreign official then this paragraph
(a)(3) may be satisfied by a State Department notification.
(4) The aircraft operator shall do the following: (i) Obtain information or
documentation required in paragraphs (a)(3)(ii), (iii), and (iv) of this section. (ii)
Advise the armed LEO, before boarding, of the aircraft operator's procedures for
carrying out this section. (iii) Have the LEO confirm he/she has completed the
training program Law Enforcement Officers Flying Armed'' as required by the
FAA, unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator. (iv) Ensure that the
identity of the armed LEO is known to the appropriate personnel who are
responsible for security during the boarding of the aircraft. (v) Notify the pilot in
command and other appropriate crewmembers, of the location of each armed LEO
aboard the aircraft. Notify any other armed LEO of the location of each armed
LEO, including FAM's. Under circumstances described in the security program, the
aircraft operator must not close the doors until the notification is complete. (vi)
Ensure that the information required in paragraphs (a)(3)(i) and (ii) of this section
is furnished to the flight crew of each additional connecting flight by the Ground
Security Coordinator or other designated agent at each location. (b) Flights for
which screening is not conducted.
The provisions of Sec. 108.201(e), with respect to accessible deadly or dangerous
weapons, do not apply to a LEO aboard a flight for which screening is not required if
the requirements of paragraphs (a)(1), (3), and (4) of this section are met. (c) Alcohol.
(1) No aircraft operator may serve any alcoholic beverage to an armed LEO. (2) No
armed LEO may: (i) Consume any alcoholic beverage while aboard an aircraft
operated by an aircraft operator. (ii) Board an aircraft armed if they have consumed an
alcoholic beverage within the previous 8 hours. (d) Location of weapon. (1) Any
person traveling aboard an aircraft while armed shall at all times keep their weapon: (i)
Concealed and out of view, either on their person or in immediate reach, if the armed
LEO is not in uniform. (ii) On their person, if the armed LEO is in uniform. (2) No
person may place a weapon in an overhead storage bin.
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What?!?!?!?!
No Bureau of Overdue Congressional Library Books?
It amazes me...
Our government, so well armed. Yet they cringe at the thought that I keep a loaded handgun safely stored in my house for the purpose of my protection.
WTF is the Smithsonian Institution doing on this list and who the heck is the Bureau of Printing and Engraving?
No Bureau of Overdue Congressional Library Books?
It amazes me...
Our government, so well armed. Yet they cringe at the thought that I keep a loaded handgun safely stored in my house for the purpose of my protection.
WTF is the Smithsonian Institution doing on this list and who the heck is the Bureau of Printing and Engraving?
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I tell you what, lets arm everyone on board. Perhaps stow it in the seat pocket and include some instructions on the safety cards. Then we could give the cabin crew a couple of M16s to put in the trolleys and the pilots could have a machine gun or two. Between all of them someone would surely hit the bad guy..........
Mind you they say that the best bet is to take your own bomb on board, since statistics show that there is unlikely to be more than one on any flight!!
THIS IS ALL A JOKE before anyone gets on their high horse!
[ 05 January 2002: Message edited by: jetgirl ]</p>
Mind you they say that the best bet is to take your own bomb on board, since statistics show that there is unlikely to be more than one on any flight!!
THIS IS ALL A JOKE before anyone gets on their high horse!
[ 05 January 2002: Message edited by: jetgirl ]</p>
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-Postal Service
Armed Posties....now there IS a scary thought..
Hang about though the FAA can can carry guns as well. Why, to protect themselves from mutinous Postal Workers.?? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Armed Posties....now there IS a scary thought..
Hang about though the FAA can can carry guns as well. Why, to protect themselves from mutinous Postal Workers.?? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
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With no system of electronic and positive ID, imagine what a morass this is for an aircrew. Further, creating fake ID's and badges is easy.
This is typical FAA incompetence. They won't fix it, so they throw it on the aircrew and airline to figure out. If something goes wrong, guess who gets the blame?
ALPA has been asking the FAA since 1989 for a system of positive and electronically verifiable ID for aircrews (which should go to include passengers authorized to carry firearms). FAA action? Nothing, as usual.
[ 05 January 2002: Message edited by: Roadtrip ]</p>
This is typical FAA incompetence. They won't fix it, so they throw it on the aircrew and airline to figure out. If something goes wrong, guess who gets the blame?
ALPA has been asking the FAA since 1989 for a system of positive and electronically verifiable ID for aircrews (which should go to include passengers authorized to carry firearms). FAA action? Nothing, as usual.
[ 05 January 2002: Message edited by: Roadtrip ]</p>
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Just a thought.
What happens if you have say 5 or 6 of these armed officials travelling off duty on a flight, and also the flight is protected by armed sky marshals?
Suppose there was trouble, if even 1 or 2 of these chicken inspectors etc decided to "help out", they may be mistaken by the sky marshals as being with the hijackers?
Also all these people carrying guns on board, I take it that they have "normal" ammunition in their weapons, NOT special ammunition like the sky marshals?
Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
What happens if you have say 5 or 6 of these armed officials travelling off duty on a flight, and also the flight is protected by armed sky marshals?
Suppose there was trouble, if even 1 or 2 of these chicken inspectors etc decided to "help out", they may be mistaken by the sky marshals as being with the hijackers?
Also all these people carrying guns on board, I take it that they have "normal" ammunition in their weapons, NOT special ammunition like the sky marshals?
Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
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reportfurther the answer to your question would be close to the proverbial knife fight in a phone booth.
Personally I think the only one in the cabin who should be armed is a sky marshal also known to the crew. And the cockpit crew should have a last line of defense beyond the secure flightdeck door.
Handgun, stungun, pissed off ex-wife or a rabid feral cat! I don't care just give me the ability to make a last stand before Abdulla Omar bin Swalahillie slits my throat with a packet of coffee creamer wrapped in tinfoil and then drives my jet into the side of the local seven-eleven...
Thanks for the answer Guv. I had no idea who they were.
Personally I think the only one in the cabin who should be armed is a sky marshal also known to the crew. And the cockpit crew should have a last line of defense beyond the secure flightdeck door.
Handgun, stungun, pissed off ex-wife or a rabid feral cat! I don't care just give me the ability to make a last stand before Abdulla Omar bin Swalahillie slits my throat with a packet of coffee creamer wrapped in tinfoil and then drives my jet into the side of the local seven-eleven...
Thanks for the answer Guv. I had no idea who they were.
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[quote]I agree with a few others here, but I also have to wonder about HUD and Dept. of Ed. <hr></blockquote>
Along with the usual FBI, SS, DEA, Customs, DOJ, I have had a few postal inspectors, Dept of Labor, USDA, Social Security, and yes, Dept of Education on my airplane. And I can't even carry nail clippers or scissors. But I have a nice crash axe in the cockpit. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Along with the usual FBI, SS, DEA, Customs, DOJ, I have had a few postal inspectors, Dept of Labor, USDA, Social Security, and yes, Dept of Education on my airplane. And I can't even carry nail clippers or scissors. But I have a nice crash axe in the cockpit. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
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For those into pernicious detail, the full FAA rule on airport and aircraft security with comments by various airlines, ALPA, etc., can be found at:
<a href="http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=27672016176+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve " target="_blank">http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=27672016176+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve </a>
TR4A's list appears to be self-constructed. It omits a number of agencies with LEOs and includes agencies which would ordinarily be subsumed by a larger department (ministry).
A few other comments:
Bureau of Printing and Engraving (within Treasury, prints currency and stamps. The list excludes the US Mint, which makes coins.)
Defense Nuclear Agency (no agency by that name currently exists)
Dept of Agriculture (Poultry Inspectors, etc. Actually most USDA LEOs are more likely to be Animal, Plant, Health Inspection Service officers who are on duty at airports and ports.)
Dept of Education (the only armed officials of this and a number of other departments MIGHT be Inspectors General staff; i.e., auditors. Hard to believe why these staff feel a need to be armed.)
CIA (I doubt there are many CIA officers flying armed as they would not wish to identify themselves as CIA agents.)
Smithsonian Institution (there are armed guards at the Smithsonian Museums. However, perhaps the more prominent cultural police force is the National Zoological Park Police.
As an example of armed Federal law enforcement agencies omitted from the list, and a great example of the jurisdictional patchwork of law enforcement within Washington DC, there are within 1000 meters of the US Capitol, the following police forces with primary patrol, arrest, etc. jurisdiction for particular areas within that radius:
US Capitol Police
Supreme Court Police
Library of Congress Police
AMTRAK Police (railroad terminal)
US Park Police (Dept. of the Interior)
National Gallery of Art Guards
Smithsonian Guards
Postal Inspectors (post office is nearby)
Federal Protective Service (guards for Federal agency buildings)
Executive Protective Service (for neaerby embassies and consulates)
and the municipal District of Columbia police force. I think the approximate ratio of residents to police in the District of Columbia is >100:1.
Only in America.
<a href="http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=27672016176+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve " target="_blank">http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=27672016176+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve </a>
TR4A's list appears to be self-constructed. It omits a number of agencies with LEOs and includes agencies which would ordinarily be subsumed by a larger department (ministry).
A few other comments:
Bureau of Printing and Engraving (within Treasury, prints currency and stamps. The list excludes the US Mint, which makes coins.)
Defense Nuclear Agency (no agency by that name currently exists)
Dept of Agriculture (Poultry Inspectors, etc. Actually most USDA LEOs are more likely to be Animal, Plant, Health Inspection Service officers who are on duty at airports and ports.)
Dept of Education (the only armed officials of this and a number of other departments MIGHT be Inspectors General staff; i.e., auditors. Hard to believe why these staff feel a need to be armed.)
CIA (I doubt there are many CIA officers flying armed as they would not wish to identify themselves as CIA agents.)
Smithsonian Institution (there are armed guards at the Smithsonian Museums. However, perhaps the more prominent cultural police force is the National Zoological Park Police.
As an example of armed Federal law enforcement agencies omitted from the list, and a great example of the jurisdictional patchwork of law enforcement within Washington DC, there are within 1000 meters of the US Capitol, the following police forces with primary patrol, arrest, etc. jurisdiction for particular areas within that radius:
US Capitol Police
Supreme Court Police
Library of Congress Police
AMTRAK Police (railroad terminal)
US Park Police (Dept. of the Interior)
National Gallery of Art Guards
Smithsonian Guards
Postal Inspectors (post office is nearby)
Federal Protective Service (guards for Federal agency buildings)
Executive Protective Service (for neaerby embassies and consulates)
and the municipal District of Columbia police force. I think the approximate ratio of residents to police in the District of Columbia is >100:1.
Only in America.
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My list was from another post. I have had most of the mention LEO's, <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> , on my airplane. The USDA guy did not tell me what he does, he could be checking chickens. The Dept of Labor (guns in the work place) or the Dept of Education guy just shows how crazy my government is at arming Law Enforcement Officers. I guess they enforce laws show they must be allowed to carry them. As a captain of a major airline I enforce laws and regulations. Where is my weapon? They scariest ones were two postal inspectors on the same plane. Good thing they did not go postal. 
The Smithsonian Institute one has to do with transporting certain items and would require them to be armed. That's what I heard.
The Smithsonian Institute one has to do with transporting certain items and would require them to be armed. That's what I heard.
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[quote]TR4A's list appears to be self-constructed. It omits a number of agencies with LEOs and includes agencies which would ordinarily be subsumed by a larger department (ministry).<hr></blockquote>
My list was not all inclusive. I have carried a few Deputy Barney Fife's too on their way to Las Vegas.
It shows you how crazy this has gotten that any one that calls him or herself a Law Enforcement Officer can get on an airplane with their weapon. [quote]Captain has final decision in these particular cases.<hr></blockquote> You are going to be seeing your chief pilot a lot or your name gets in the news like the AA captain.
[ 06 January 2002: Message edited by: TR4A ]</p>
My list was not all inclusive. I have carried a few Deputy Barney Fife's too on their way to Las Vegas.
It shows you how crazy this has gotten that any one that calls him or herself a Law Enforcement Officer can get on an airplane with their weapon. [quote]Captain has final decision in these particular cases.<hr></blockquote> You are going to be seeing your chief pilot a lot or your name gets in the news like the AA captain.
[ 06 January 2002: Message edited by: TR4A ]</p>
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[quote]You are going to be seeing your chief pilot a lot or your name gets in the news like the AA captain.<hr></blockquote>
Not to mention the requisite psychological testing!
Not to mention the requisite psychological testing!
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Tripower455
I didn't mention the company we work for, did I? Whew! I don't need that psychological evaluation. They did say that we could not talk to the media and mention that we work for XYZ Airlines. Is this considered the media?
I didn't mention the company we work for, did I? Whew! I don't need that psychological evaluation. They did say that we could not talk to the media and mention that we work for XYZ Airlines. Is this considered the media?
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U.S. Postal inspectors rightly carry firearms, because one of their duties is investigating the movement of contraband via the mails, i.e. narcotics, weapons, "anthrax", and as a consequence arrest these suspects and also serve search warrants.
As far as the Departments of Education and Labor, who knows.
The USDA includes the U.S. Forest Service. They employ Special Agents and other law enforcement personnel who investigate crimes on National Forests. These crimes include murder, rape, and drug violations.
As far as the Departments of Education and Labor, who knows.
The USDA includes the U.S. Forest Service. They employ Special Agents and other law enforcement personnel who investigate crimes on National Forests. These crimes include murder, rape, and drug violations.