JetBlue Pilot Threatens To Crash Plane
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I appreciate the original posting as I had not heard of this news story. The comments following have been terrible.
mental illness in aviation, especially in airline flying is a real problem.
mental illness in aviation, especially in airline flying is a real problem.
I've also had a couple of pilot friends commit suicide over the years, I would guess that the rate is lower than the general population due to employment screening and drug testing but that's just a hunch.
Increasingly bizarre behaviour will at some point get you sent for a psych evaluation. A couple of the more sensational examples in years past were Captain WOW at Delta and Captain Barney at FedEx. In both of these cases there was a layer of union politics mixed in but neither pilot returned to the cockpit from what I remember.
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OCD character traits, depending on how they'd manifest & the level of functioning of the individual, could actually have some quite obvious advantages in aviation & maintenance eg: attention to detail, vigilance, adhering to checklists & procedures, running operation-oriented mental checklists, etc.
Apparently research suggests some persons with OCD may actually enhance their own & other's safety due to a hightened sense of responsibility for other's safety and a high vigilance level. Are responsibility beliefs inflated in non-checkin... [J Anxiety Disord. 2007] - PubMed result
Many of what are viewed as 'conditions' or 'disorders' exist on a continuum of severity with a hugely variable range of individual traits - as well, there can be a distinction made between 'high functioning' and 'low functioning' individuals.
The current thinking concerning the majority of psychiatric conditions is that there is probably a significant genetic element, an environmental element (early years & external forces later in life acting as stressors, triggers etc ), an individual character element and a neurological element (brain structure, chemistry, functioning etc). If you think about it, many of what are viewed as 'disorders' in modern society may have had some evolutionary advantages in the context of individual & group survival in human history, otherwise these traits would have died out over time.
Anyway, the description in that Quantas pilot website about him anxiously seated at the controls in a 747 with a psychiatrist-recommended rubber band around his wrist which he's supposed to 'thwap' every time the disturbing intrusive thought enters his mind, sounds right out of a comedy 'Airplane' style skit - except that its allegedly true.
Last edited by STC-8; 21st May 2010 at 16:10.
It's statistically only a matter of time before something really bad takes place with a stressed gun-carrying pilot. It only takes one. The possibility of terrorist action worries me a lot less!
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Airbubba: I agree. It is the proverbial Catch 22 situation where you wouldn't be normal if at times the stress of the job and lifestyle, including mergers, pay cuts, divorce, jetlag, WX and BK, didn't get to you. However, if you seek help from a mental health professional in coping with your issues and the feds find out, you have the very real risk of being permanently grounded depending on the diagnosis.
Ryanair changed its operations manual following the incident to emphasise the flight safety implications of personal trauma, and the importance of notification to flight operations management.
Ryanair captain flew unstable approach days after son's death
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Originally Posted by aterpster
Ditchdigger:
I can't help but notice the similarity in poor communication procedure with AAL2 at Kennedy. If he didn't get what he wanted, then he would do (whatever).
What's the proper phraseology for unequivocally declaring your intention to crash your plane? (Either ICAO or FAA.)
Your second sentence makes light of a most serious situation. I fail to see any humor in this pathetic Jet Blue incident.
As to making light, my post was #13. Prior to that, only posts 1, 7, 9, and 12 lacked some degree of tongue-in-cheek flavor. If you're going to gig me for making light of the subject, I suggest you need to include a few others as well.
That having been said, I apologize if I have offended your sensibilities.
Last edited by Ditchdigger; 21st May 2010 at 17:04.
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If ever there was a warning about the insanity of letting pilots carry guns in the cockpit, this is it. Alas, this chap was clearly not playing with a full deck of cards - his flying career is well and truly 'over and out'. A tragic end, but it could have been a whole lot worse. Mercifully, the guy's girlfriend appears to have done the right thing and coughed up to the authorities, before a total catastrophe occurred. No doubt some lawyer will argue he is the victim of a smear campaign and was doing just great until someone trod on his hamster when he was a child etc, etc. Jet Blue will end up getting sued for unfair dismissal, defamation of character, loss of earnings, emotional trauma and so forth. Whatever the outcome, I trust they will stand firm and ensure that this guy's flying days are all behind him.
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M.S. Fletcher:
If the evidence is sufficient the FAA will revoke his medical certificate. Then, he will have to prove that he is sane in order to get a new medical. If the feds don't want to accept his future proof of sanity, he is screwed.
Whatever the outcome, I trust they will stand firm and ensure that this guy's flying days are all behind him.
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If the evidence is sufficient the FAA will revoke his medical certificate. Then, he will have to prove that he is sane in order to get a new medical. If the feds don't want to accept his future proof of sanity, he is screwed.
From the FAA Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners:
A history of suicidal attempts or suicidal gestures requires further evaluation. The ultimate decision of whether an applicant with such a history is eligible for medical certification rests with the FAA. The Examiner should take a supplemental history as indicated, assist in the gathering of medical records related to the incident(s), and, if the applicant agrees, assist in obtaining psychiatric and/or psychological examinations.
However, in my observation, I've seen several folks go out medical, be diagnosed with a mental disorder, take anti-depressants and then get their medicals back just as the benefits for postpartum depression were about to run out. One of my female colleagues pointed out that it's a well known racket in some quarters at my company and others. Maybe males can now try it in these enlightened times, who knows?
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Looks like jetblue, nasa and the tsa will have to reassess their hiring practices. We have quite a few ffdos where I work, I don't trust any of them. It is all about being John Wayne to them. There is nothing more dangerous than a gun on an aircraft in the wrong hands.
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I suppose it was the 'right' thing to do in this case. Homeland In-Security, et al with hot hair-trigger fingers at the ready for a Jim Dandy to the un-rescue.
So in the near future whenever a front office fellow sends a message to his girl such as "you make me crazy" or anything along those lines, we can expect this action to be a career ender, if said bird decides to share the information - malicious intent or not.
bonzai?
So in the near future whenever a front office fellow sends a message to his girl such as "you make me crazy" or anything along those lines, we can expect this action to be a career ender, if said bird decides to share the information - malicious intent or not.
What's the proper phraseology for unequivocally declaring your intention to crash your plane? (Either ICAO or FAA.)
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Ant then there is the Air Botswana Captain who after some dispute over his medical took an ATR and offered some other Airline personnel to fly with and went into the airline office at Gaberone as well? Facts might be a bit diluted as I can't remember it getting a lot of media attention?
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Did someone mention "Catch 22"?
The definitive Catch 22:
There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to.
Makes perfect sense to me
There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to.
Makes perfect sense to me
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Ant then there is the Air Botswana Captain who after some dispute over his medical took an ATR and offered some other Airline personnel to fly with and went into the airline office at Gaberone as well? Facts might be a bit diluted as I can't remember it getting a lot of media attention?
BBC News | Africa | Suicide pilot destroys Air Botswana fleet
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Chose sailplane rather than airliner:
Death dive of glider pilot 'was airliners suicide'
From the Echo, first published Thursday 20th Nov 2003.
A 48-year-old airline pilot who lived for flying died in a glider crash after he deliberately plunged into the ground in a suicidal 166 mph nosedive.
Earlier, Peter Palm, a first officer with the Air 2000 airline, had told a fellow glider pilot it would be the perfect way to die.
Mr Palm, who was also a former Royal Navy pilot, was happily married with a good career. Friends were left baffled after he deliberately crashed the fibreglass Pegasus glider.
His wife Lavinia, 41, a staff nurse at Dorset County Hospital, sobbed as an inquest at Honiton, Devon, heard how he must have pushed forward the control stick of the single seater glider to induce the fatal dive in which the aircraft plunged vertically into the ground from 900 feet.
From the Echo, first published Thursday 20th Nov 2003.
A 48-year-old airline pilot who lived for flying died in a glider crash after he deliberately plunged into the ground in a suicidal 166 mph nosedive.
Earlier, Peter Palm, a first officer with the Air 2000 airline, had told a fellow glider pilot it would be the perfect way to die.
Mr Palm, who was also a former Royal Navy pilot, was happily married with a good career. Friends were left baffled after he deliberately crashed the fibreglass Pegasus glider.
His wife Lavinia, 41, a staff nurse at Dorset County Hospital, sobbed as an inquest at Honiton, Devon, heard how he must have pushed forward the control stick of the single seater glider to induce the fatal dive in which the aircraft plunged vertically into the ground from 900 feet.
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vapilot; I thought bonzai was a tiny tree however "bansai" means tiger or something to that effect and was the code word that initiated the attack on Pearl Harbour. It was also a salute to the Japanese Emperor at the time. (and possibly still is)
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Airbubba:
"Mental disorder" is a very broad term without further definition. In this case, if it can be proven that he declared his intent to crash a Jet Blue aircraft in Part 121 operations, he is toast. If proven, this would be considered a threat to commit terror in air commerce. In that case, mental illness would likely be the only hope of avoiding a very long prison sentence.
That would not be your "garden varity" suicide threat.
However, in my observation, I've seen several folks go out medical, be diagnosed with a mental disorder, take anti-depressants and then get their medicals back just as the benefits for postpartum depression were about to run out. One of my female colleagues pointed out that it's a well known racket in some quarters at my company and others. Maybe males can now try it in these enlightened times, who knows?
That would not be your "garden varity" suicide threat.
Brenock
The code used to initiate the Pearl Harbour attack had nowt to do with wildlife; it was Niitakayama Nobore (literally "Climb the New High Mountain"), or if you prefer, "Climb Mt. Niitaka". "Tiger" (Tora) was the code word used by Commander Nagumoto to report that the raid had been a success.
The code used to initiate the Pearl Harbour attack had nowt to do with wildlife; it was Niitakayama Nobore (literally "Climb the New High Mountain"), or if you prefer, "Climb Mt. Niitaka". "Tiger" (Tora) was the code word used by Commander Nagumoto to report that the raid had been a success.
Last edited by Sepp; 22nd May 2010 at 16:07. Reason: To remove a smiley that on reflection I felt to be inappropriate.
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vapilot; I thought bonzai was a tiny tree however "bansai" means tiger or something to that effect and was the code word that initiated the attack on Pearl Harbour. It was also a salute to the Japanese Emperor at the time. (and possibly still is)
I'm sure you're all trying to put your finger on the word "Banzi".
Banzai | Define Banzai at Dictionary.com
(Hopefully putting an end to the thread creep engendered by vapilot's response to my first reply here.)
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I'm sure you're all trying to put your finger on the word "Banzi".
Banzai | Define Banzai at Dictionary.com
(Hopefully putting an end to the thread creep engendered by vapilot's response to my first reply here.)
Banzai | Define Banzai at Dictionary.com
(Hopefully putting an end to the thread creep engendered by vapilot's response to my first reply here.)