Ash clouds threaten air traffic
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 89
Likes: 1
From: Belfast
Has this mountain just exploded never seen a pic like this one its really bad now. Also in the last hour Aer Lingus has cancelled flights to Northern Spain and Portugal today.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attac...0&d=1273269658
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attac...0&d=1273269658
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14
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From: Arizona
BA288 Flightpath and Ash
I'm scheduled to fly with my wife to London from Phoenix June 18th on BA 288, Phoenix Sky Harbor to London Heathrow. I don't know how accurate "flightaware" tracking site is but I followed that flight online yesterday and noticed that it's projected flight path goes in a large arc north of the over what looks to be northern Iceland and then drops down south to intercept the British isles over Scotland and thereafter straight down the length of England to Heathrow.
However I noticed yesterday that once the flight reached the east coast of Canada it appeared to deviate on a much more southern track across the Atlantic far south of Iceland. I'm watching today's same flight which has just taken off from Phoenix and it's projected flight path now puts it's transatlantic route way south of Iceland similar to the path followed by yesterdays flight.
Obviously this makes sense if the intention is to avoid ash except that according to the projections provided by the charts based on the Icelandic Met office information (the red and black ones) it would appear that this flight path takes them directly thru some of the densest parts of the cloud. What's going on here? is the flight aware tracking completely off, are the red/black cloud projections wrong or do they know something nobody else does?
- Peter.
However I noticed yesterday that once the flight reached the east coast of Canada it appeared to deviate on a much more southern track across the Atlantic far south of Iceland. I'm watching today's same flight which has just taken off from Phoenix and it's projected flight path now puts it's transatlantic route way south of Iceland similar to the path followed by yesterdays flight.
Obviously this makes sense if the intention is to avoid ash except that according to the projections provided by the charts based on the Icelandic Met office information (the red and black ones) it would appear that this flight path takes them directly thru some of the densest parts of the cloud. What's going on here? is the flight aware tracking completely off, are the red/black cloud projections wrong or do they know something nobody else does?
- Peter.
Joined: Jul 2009
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From: Yorkshire
Joined: Mar 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,558
Likes: 155
From: BC
or do they know something nobody else does?
That changed late yesterday as we see.
June 18th is a very long time away - relax and closer to departure keep in touch with the airline and, for exactly the reason behind the question you ask, ignore the ash charts, it'll bring better peace-of-mind, ;-) . PJ2
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 566
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From: btw SAMAR and TOSPA
As much bad luck as we (European airliners) had three weeks ago, there was great luck this week, that the winds were not north-westerly. The cloud moved onto the Atlantic and stayed there for the last 4 days. When the wind direction will change over the weekend Europe may run into a difficult situation again.
For the first time the plume is clearly visible on sat pictures. The worst is not over.
Realtime satellite images of ashclouds from Eyjafjallajokull volcano
Later in the weekend weather patterns are set to change and may bring the ash cloud back into parts of UK airspace toward the end of the weekend and into next week.
Realtime satellite images of ashclouds from Eyjafjallajokull volcano
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 441
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From: UK
Ash Cloud: Airports Hampered In Spain, Portugal And France As Volcano Plume Threatens UK And Ireland | World News | Sky News
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 410
Likes: 87
From: EASA territory
Am I wrong in supposing that there are a least a few scientific test aircraft and/or military aircraft now flying over N.-Spain and S.-France? Also the FAAM 146 is surely flying in or near the "black" ash concentrations to find out how necessary (OR NOT) the actual limitation of 2000 micrograms/m^3 is, isn't it? Surely there must be some aircraft there now to compare the real ash concentrations versus the forecast values we're using now as a base to close that airspace and airports?
No, aren't there any? Not even G-LUXE? What? Really? Not one?
Amazing!!! WHY NOT?
No, aren't there any? Not even G-LUXE? What? Really? Not one?
Amazing!!! WHY NOT?
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,315
Likes: 10
From: France
Janspeed, thanks.
You forgot to mention both visible and FLIR are webcams, hence basically "live" (there is a date/time stamp on the FLIR image). Impressive.
Simonpro,
"This is a slightly better, and less fiddled, sequence"
What do you mean? That's an mpg from three days ago, so not current.
The link from threemiles is to the sat24.com site, which is "realtime" (sequence over the last few hours). That particular sequence has been added by sat24.com after the eruption, and the only thing "fiddled" is that they've added a legend and a pointer indicating the volcano to the map overlay.
CJ
You forgot to mention both visible and FLIR are webcams, hence basically "live" (there is a date/time stamp on the FLIR image). Impressive.
Simonpro,
"This is a slightly better, and less fiddled, sequence"
What do you mean? That's an mpg from three days ago, so not current.
The link from threemiles is to the sat24.com site, which is "realtime" (sequence over the last few hours). That particular sequence has been added by sat24.com after the eruption, and the only thing "fiddled" is that they've added a legend and a pointer indicating the volcano to the map overlay.
CJ
Joined: Feb 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 371
Likes: 17
From: UK
Does anyone else find it frustrating that, given the potential insurance problems, we have either to:
a) trust our luck to rediculously small charts (Met Office*) or totally out of date reasonable-size ones EuroControl) or
b) commit staff to plotting the advisory co-ordinates for ourselves, every six hours ... assuming we have the spare staff to do so.
Why* in God's name can't the regulator(s) and/or various Met Offices come up with something definitive, and useable?
*Sub-"why"s: Why do the two available charts not match and why the hell aren't they produced at the same time from the same data? Don't tell me it can't be done - no, really, don't - as we can apparently be expected to do it from the available data (advisory co-ords)...
EASA has, to my mind, demonstrated at the first real pan-European safety hurdle that the system is at best impotent and at worst incompetent. I wonder if we ought to start thinking about performing an audit or two upon the 'regulators'.
a) trust our luck to rediculously small charts (Met Office*) or totally out of date reasonable-size ones EuroControl) or
b) commit staff to plotting the advisory co-ordinates for ourselves, every six hours ... assuming we have the spare staff to do so.
Why* in God's name can't the regulator(s) and/or various Met Offices come up with something definitive, and useable?
*Sub-"why"s: Why do the two available charts not match and why the hell aren't they produced at the same time from the same data? Don't tell me it can't be done - no, really, don't - as we can apparently be expected to do it from the available data (advisory co-ords)...
EASA has, to my mind, demonstrated at the first real pan-European safety hurdle that the system is at best impotent and at worst incompetent. I wonder if we ought to start thinking about performing an audit or two upon the 'regulators'.
Joined: Feb 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,427
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From: Correr es mi destino por no llevar papel
Originally Posted by Ranger1
The airlines will not push to fly if they feel it is unsafe
What if their feelings about unsafety get a bit unreliable? Or if their lawyers confidentially confirm that there is "We couldn't possibly know" escape clause, if worst case & least chance situation materializes?
Anyway, I have used up my vacation and looking at VAAC charts, seemingly a lot of test flying awaits me tomorrow.
Yeeeeee-haaaaaaw!
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 107
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From: Samsonite
Spain apparently figured out it would be embarrasing to have GA in the air while grounding the big iron so they just closed all airports the govt controls today
http://www.aena.es
http://www.aena.es
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 309
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From: .
Simonpro,
"This is a slightly better, and less fiddled, sequence"
What do you mean? That's an mpg from three days ago, so not current.
"This is a slightly better, and less fiddled, sequence"
What do you mean? That's an mpg from three days ago, so not current.
That particular sequence has been added by sat24.com after the eruption, and the only thing "fiddled" is that they've added a legend and a pointer indicating the volcano to the map overlay.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
From: UK
Well now I am confused
Well looking at the latest London VAAC charts it looks to me as if this morning GLA and EDI should be closed due ash and later today this is likely to affect MAN, BFS and LPL so I don't understand why the associated flights and airports aren't closed?
Can someone explain to me as a pilot why they're still operating within the red zone?
Desk-pilot
Can someone explain to me as a pilot why they're still operating within the red zone?
Desk-pilot
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: In the clouds
Desk Pilot,
you're probably looking at the wrong charts. It's the black areas on these charts that indicate the no-fly zones:
Met Office: Icelandic volcano - Ash concentration charts
you're probably looking at the wrong charts. It's the black areas on these charts that indicate the no-fly zones:
Met Office: Icelandic volcano - Ash concentration charts
