Ash clouds threaten air traffic
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Dunno, the sat nav is busted.
Perhaps the C.A.A. has spent the last few days doing what many have called for, finding out exactly what is up there and how dangerous it is? You know, just quietly going about their job.
None but a blockhead
Joined: Nov 1999
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From: London, UK
Lord Adonis on R4 now [live transcript - all errors mine]- "there is a differentiation between the dangerous area, a no-fly zone, and a low contamination zone where on the advice of manufacturers and test flights where it is safe to fly. The safety regime has been changed to significant analysis of test flight data and experience of flight, and crucially advice from aircraft engine and airframe manufacturers... before last week, volcanoes weren't a problem in Europe. it's because we faced this act of God that we had to face this problem, and intensive work by manufacturers to establish how it is safe to operate."
Interviewer: Were you aware that there were all these planes in the air heading for London?
LA: Of course I knew this evening, because it was all over the media
Interviewer: Didn't BA tell you?
LA: All I needed to do was turn on the television. The process to clear airspace has been in progress since the beginning of the week.
Interviewer: Were you aware that there were all these planes in the air heading for London?
LA: Of course I knew this evening, because it was all over the media
Interviewer: Didn't BA tell you?
LA: All I needed to do was turn on the television. The process to clear airspace has been in progress since the beginning of the week.
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: UK
The CEO of Citi-jet released a press statement saying he believes British Airways took "undue risks in conducting test flights " , he also claims to have knowledge that "the aircraft involved in those tests were damaged" . He goes on to say that it appears safety authorities are being pressured by commercial interests. Source : RTE Ireland news at one.
This morning flying is DANGEROUS!, and banned.
Now, flying is safe.
Utter, utter incompetence.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,294
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From: norn iron
Hand Solo, can we have the evidence that the information was duff please?
Have you any grasp of what information was provided by the met men and women to the CAA?
Also, can we have some evidence (just as a bonus) of where the Met said airspace should be shut? Perhaps if their ash dispersion model is inaccurate, as aviators we could all cough up some extra tax to pay for a new one?
Have you any grasp of what information was provided by the met men and women to the CAA?
Also, can we have some evidence (just as a bonus) of where the Met said airspace should be shut? Perhaps if their ash dispersion model is inaccurate, as aviators we could all cough up some extra tax to pay for a new one?
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 154
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From: Deep South
hand solo
i think i saw a senior met man on tv today say they had provided the info NATS' required and that the decision for no-fly 'was outside their (mets) remit'.
i wonder where the dice will roll......
i wonder where the dice will roll......
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: New South Wales
The large bunch of intercontinental flights all now landing at Heathrow launched up to 12 hours ago, which means a decision to launch them in this coordinated fashion must have been taken 18-24 hours ago. It is clear that BA must have decided then that this was all BS and decided to present the UK govt with a fait accompli. At 19-20.00Z tonight they were faced with 20+ BA flights on the doorstep and had to make a rapid decision on what they were going to do.
Big balls for Mr Walsh, that's for sure.
I sympathise with both views. The risk probably is negligible per flight, but it only takes one double engine failure due to a locally dense ash concentration on one of 30,000 daily flights for everyone to howl for heads to roll.
Big balls for Mr Walsh, that's for sure.
I sympathise with both views. The risk probably is negligible per flight, but it only takes one double engine failure due to a locally dense ash concentration on one of 30,000 daily flights for everyone to howl for heads to roll.
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Midlands
NATS is responsible because it imposed a zero flow rate on the airspace it controls
Beady Eye
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,495
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From: UK
BD
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: Dorset
Based on the amount of BA long haul flights that have either already landed or are approaching Heathrow, that have obviously been heading towards the UK since this morning.....
Dare I ask who actually decided on the re-openeing of the airspace and the new guidelines for flying in ash. Was it NATS and the CAA based on experts advice and test flight data, or was it Willie Walsh who decided to reactivate his long haul last night/this morning?
Dare I ask who actually decided on the re-openeing of the airspace and the new guidelines for flying in ash. Was it NATS and the CAA based on experts advice and test flight data, or was it Willie Walsh who decided to reactivate his long haul last night/this morning?
Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Yonder, UK
@ QDMQDMQDM:
Government didn't face the decision making process at 19.00Z tonight: the American, Canadian and Mexican Speedbirds were all posted up on the LHR arrivals board before lunchtime today. It's pretty obvious that yesterday (Monday) was spent in planning and then before nine o'clock this morning BA told Lord Adonis to don a spotter's anorak.
Government didn't face the decision making process at 19.00Z tonight: the American, Canadian and Mexican Speedbirds were all posted up on the LHR arrivals board before lunchtime today. It's pretty obvious that yesterday (Monday) was spent in planning and then before nine o'clock this morning BA told Lord Adonis to don a spotter's anorak.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 731
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From: England
Will be interesting to see what the maint departments find when doing checks after flight through ash.
Or hav Airbus and Boeing just revised the maint manuals !
Or hav Airbus and Boeing just revised the maint manuals !
Depends if the crews report encountering ash I guess.
MM 05-51-25-601 if you're interested.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 738
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From: london,uk
It will be interesting what Ryanair do, they have no pressing commercial need to fly.
By waiting for the winds to clear the cloud away on Thursday/Friday they may save themselves a lot of money.
Not withstanding the fact that inspecting the engines after every flight will blow their business model and profit..
By waiting for the winds to clear the cloud away on Thursday/Friday they may save themselves a lot of money.
Not withstanding the fact that inspecting the engines after every flight will blow their business model and profit..
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 204
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From: UK
Desk Pilot wrote
Ryanair, you might like to hear, pay most of their employees on an hourly basis. If there is no work, there is no pay. It is in O'Leary's interest to sit this one out as he has very little comparative cash burn compared to BA.
Desk pilots are prone to risk aversion I hear. Quite safe sat twiddling with ones pen.
Frankly I'm disgusted by Willy Walsh and BA and the fact that they have leant on the regulator in this way (and I'm usually very pro BA) I have to admire O'Leary (and I'm normally far from a fan of his!!) but actually ironically Ryanair seems far more bothered by the risks of this than BA do - and I never thought I'd say that...
Safety is safety whatever it costs. I personally am not ken to fly tomorrow because I have yet to hear scientific evidence to confirm it is safe.
Safety is safety whatever it costs. I personally am not ken to fly tomorrow because I have yet to hear scientific evidence to confirm it is safe.
Desk pilots are prone to risk aversion I hear. Quite safe sat twiddling with ones pen.
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: England
Desk Pilot
The notions that airlines are now responsible for deciding if it safe to fly concerns me.
Regards
Joined: Apr 2010
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From: NCL
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the reports from the first required post-flight inspections are submitted. I'm guessing you all saw the scope pics from the Finnish F-18?
The (admittedly unconfirmed) reports of 'burning smell' during descent tonight is troubling. This could backfire quite spectacularly.
The (admittedly unconfirmed) reports of 'burning smell' during descent tonight is troubling. This could backfire quite spectacularly.
