Ash clouds threaten air traffic
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
From: England
Question.....
So hundreds of UK outbound flights are cancelled today and maybe tomorrow. What happens to the flights on Saturday? Are todays and tomorrows pushed back to another time or will they take the place of the weekend flights?
Also, how does a charter flight fair? Are they easier to cancel and re-schedule or harder than scheduled flights?
Also, how does a charter flight fair? Are they easier to cancel and re-schedule or harder than scheduled flights?
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 1
From: Florida
All engines are not alike when it comes to the effects of ingesting ash, anymore then saying that all volcanic ash is alike.
The variance is due to the various melting points of the particles of ash (vary with the volcano) and the operating temperatures of the engine when they ingest the ash. This is in regard to the largest risk which is the loss of power at altitude. Wear out modes due to errosion and blocking cooling holes take place over multiple flights and can be addressed by overhaul.
The gas turbine engine risk being dependent on its operating temperatures (in cruise) has been steadily going up as the engine designs get more efficient by running hotter.
To my knowledge there has never been a ash cause multiple engine loss of power for the likes of a B727, DC9, DC8, B707 etc. (perhaps explaining why some engines seem immune)
Disclaimer: The comments above are not meant to conflict with published procedures and are only general in nature for the benefit of casual questions.
The variance is due to the various melting points of the particles of ash (vary with the volcano) and the operating temperatures of the engine when they ingest the ash. This is in regard to the largest risk which is the loss of power at altitude. Wear out modes due to errosion and blocking cooling holes take place over multiple flights and can be addressed by overhaul.
The gas turbine engine risk being dependent on its operating temperatures (in cruise) has been steadily going up as the engine designs get more efficient by running hotter.
To my knowledge there has never been a ash cause multiple engine loss of power for the likes of a B727, DC9, DC8, B707 etc. (perhaps explaining why some engines seem immune)
Disclaimer: The comments above are not meant to conflict with published procedures and are only general in nature for the benefit of casual questions.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From: UK
Small exec jet has just passed south of Aylesbury low level heading probably towards Luton. Hasn't seized up despite Comical Gord saving the nation from flying.
Last edited by Skylion; 15th April 2010 at 15:41. Reason: spelling
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: uk
I've got a thin layer of fine grey dust on the cars and on my window sills - I can't remember if they were already like that and needed a wash or if it's the ash!
Hope it's all cleared up by next Thursday as I'm off on hols. Guess today would've been a good day to be at work after all - right until the airspace re-opens!
louby
Hope it's all cleared up by next Thursday as I'm off on hols. Guess today would've been a good day to be at work after all - right until the airspace re-opens!
louby
Last edited by loubylou; 15th April 2010 at 15:45. Reason: spelling!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7
Likes: 4
From: Europe
Serious
I do not think this is over reaction at all.
A gentle reminder here:
YouTube - Airsidetv.com - Interview With Capt Eric Moody BA Flt 9 Part 2/3
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Europe
Apprently Brussels is covered with this stuff and the airport is closed. However, the weather is glorious and there is no sign of any dust.
Reminds me of Y2K.
Imperator1300 ( who is now going to venture outdoors
)
Reminds me of Y2K.
Imperator1300 ( who is now going to venture outdoors
)
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 172
Likes: 7
From: France
Interesting stuff here:
http://acweather.********.com/2005/1...-airports.html
You can have a look at the "High Level SIGWX Forecast" and see the volcanic ash (Eyjafjallajokull) forecast for tomorrow 16-04 0000z. It's going South...
The URL is not accepted by my browser or the site . "*****" should be replaced by " b l o g s p o t" without spaces!
http://acweather.********.com/2005/1...-airports.html
You can have a look at the "High Level SIGWX Forecast" and see the volcanic ash (Eyjafjallajokull) forecast for tomorrow 16-04 0000z. It's going South...
The URL is not accepted by my browser or the site . "*****" should be replaced by " b l o g s p o t" without spaces!
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
From: Ireland
Well, we've just had a Spitfire launch from Duxford; perhaps it's a re-enactment of the THUM flights!
Here's a link to a real time ADS-B readouts over Europe. Notice how empty Northern Europe and the British isles is. Spooky! Give it a moment to load.
*Dundalk Amateur Radio Society EI7DAR*
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
From: crawley
Re Heathrow
Is it Closed as we speak ??
If it is I Think someone should tell Air India,Thai,Korean and EAT who according to Radar Virtuel are all en route to Heathrow or is it the Flight Plans are still as filed and they are diverting .
The Korean is going the wrong way as a natter of fact but why change the habit of a lifetime
Is it Closed as we speak ??
If it is I Think someone should tell Air India,Thai,Korean and EAT who according to Radar Virtuel are all en route to Heathrow or is it the Flight Plans are still as filed and they are diverting .
The Korean is going the wrong way as a natter of fact but why change the habit of a lifetime
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: Malaysia
Nature's Gritblaster
Lomapaseo
I think that the operating temperature of the engines would not be a factor.
If an aircraft were to fly through a cloud of volcanic ash at 500kts it would be equivalent to flying through a giant gritblaster...
The entire aircraft would be thoroughly abraded, including the turbine blades
...
Have a look at this; Airline captain recalls flying through volcanic ash - Telegraph
and this;
The story of BA flight 009 and the words every passenger dreads ... | Mail Online
CJ
I think that the operating temperature of the engines would not be a factor.
If an aircraft were to fly through a cloud of volcanic ash at 500kts it would be equivalent to flying through a giant gritblaster...
The entire aircraft would be thoroughly abraded, including the turbine blades
...Have a look at this; Airline captain recalls flying through volcanic ash - Telegraph
and this;
The story of BA flight 009 and the words every passenger dreads ... | Mail Online
CJ
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
From: London Under EGLL(LHR) 27R ILS
Nats suggested that the restrictions were unlikely to be lifted after 0700, saying saying it was "very unlikely that the situation over England will improve in the foreseeable future". BBC have also said, the airspace will be close indefinitely. Until the situation has passed.