Indonesia Crash
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Indonesia Crash
Early reports say its a 737-300
First picture of Boeing 737 crash near Indonesian airport on Twitpic
Boeing 737-300 Crashes In Manokwari, Indonesia - Thailand Forum
First picture of Boeing 737 crash near Indonesian airport on Twitpic
Boeing 737-300 Crashes In Manokwari, Indonesia - Thailand Forum
Merpati Airlines 737 off runway in West Papua
A 737 belonging to Merpati Airlines has skidded off the runway into a shallow riverbed today while landing in heavy rain in West Papua, breaking up into pieces. Some 20 pax and/or crew reported injured.
Plane Crash In Indonesia | Merpati jet skids off Manokwari runway
Plane Crash In Indonesia | Merpati jet skids off Manokwari runway
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This from the Sydney Morning Herald:
Plane Crash In Indonesia | Merpati jet skids off Manokwari runway
It appears to be the same piece as in the Melbourne Age newspaper.
Plane Crash In Indonesia | Merpati jet skids off Manokwari runway
It appears to be the same piece as in the Melbourne Age newspaper.
Merpati airline corporate secretary Sukandi suggested that rain played a part in the crash and ruled out pilot error.
"It was raining when the plane landed. The pilots followed all the safety procedures regarding landing in wet conditions," he said.
"It was raining when the plane landed. The pilots followed all the safety procedures regarding landing in wet conditions," he said.
We have another member of the 'real men don't go around' club.
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I'm sure he didn't wake up in the morning thinking "i'm going to crash a plane today...". Am confident that there must have been something else amiss that has not been said yet. Eager to hear what the investigation uncovers.
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I eagerly await the "We've told you there was a serious accident waiting to happen in Indonesia" fraction to turn up before official statements become available.
corruption, bad training, mentality, amongst a few other main reasons will be the next few pages of this thread. oh and the presence of a check ride pilot too, obviously...
corruption, bad training, mentality, amongst a few other main reasons will be the next few pages of this thread. oh and the presence of a check ride pilot too, obviously...
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Plane was a 737-300. Check out where they ended up!! Photo and article in the Aviation Herald http://avherald.com/h?article=42a0d9ad
Seeking to blame pilots, operators, or national cultures provides few if any lessons to be learnt from this accident.
There might be many similarities with recent incidents, particularly that in Kingston (AA 737) and an overrun in Canada.
Perhaps of significance is a wet runway; then consider both pilots being qualified as Captains.
Is the runway grooved, is it contaminated with rubber, is it well drained?
While we wait for more information, something to read:-
How to avoid an Overrun
Runway Safety Initiative.
There might be many similarities with recent incidents, particularly that in Kingston (AA 737) and an overrun in Canada.
Perhaps of significance is a wet runway; then consider both pilots being qualified as Captains.
Is the runway grooved, is it contaminated with rubber, is it well drained?
While we wait for more information, something to read:-
How to avoid an Overrun
Runway Safety Initiative.
PEI
That's all very true. Sadly history shows that accidents involving Indonesian carriers usually involves a rather large does of ineptitude - and I'm being very nice using that word.
As a previous poster mentioned, attempting to land a 737 with Flaps 5 whilst going 200+ knots over the fence is hardly the fault of anybody but the guys up the sharp end and the authority which indirectly sanctioned such an operation.
Put it this way: How many landing overruns have been found to be primarily caused by aeroplane malfunction? How many in Indonesia?
Jumping to conclusions based on very little hard fact is not what aviation is all about. In this case, as in many before it involving Indonesian carriers, I do believe we'll find that first impressions are pretty close to the truth - i.e the crew stuffed it due to circumstances which can ultimately be traced back to a poor safety culture. And that points the finger straight at the airline and the responsible regulatory authority.
With that in mind, you can hardly fault people here for swinging the axe this early.
That's all very true. Sadly history shows that accidents involving Indonesian carriers usually involves a rather large does of ineptitude - and I'm being very nice using that word.
As a previous poster mentioned, attempting to land a 737 with Flaps 5 whilst going 200+ knots over the fence is hardly the fault of anybody but the guys up the sharp end and the authority which indirectly sanctioned such an operation.
Put it this way: How many landing overruns have been found to be primarily caused by aeroplane malfunction? How many in Indonesia?
Jumping to conclusions based on very little hard fact is not what aviation is all about. In this case, as in many before it involving Indonesian carriers, I do believe we'll find that first impressions are pretty close to the truth - i.e the crew stuffed it due to circumstances which can ultimately be traced back to a poor safety culture. And that points the finger straight at the airline and the responsible regulatory authority.
With that in mind, you can hardly fault people here for swinging the axe this early.
No one appears to be "blaming" anyone here yet (though, true to the grand traditions of pprune, that will of course happen). In my case, I have not -- and will not -- post anything that "blames" anyone. That's not how aviation safety, nor accident investigation (should) work.
Having said that, I have lived and worked in Indonesia (still do work there on occasion) and have a lot of direct experience with both Merpati and the Regulator. As anyone who knows Indonesia is aware, what can be said is this: The historic cultural involvement of corruption in government matters is still a significant impediment to achieving and maintaining an acceptable level of civil aviation safety in Indonesia.
To what degree that may be a contributing factor in this accident is another, but related, matter.
Having said that, I have lived and worked in Indonesia (still do work there on occasion) and have a lot of direct experience with both Merpati and the Regulator. As anyone who knows Indonesia is aware, what can be said is this: The historic cultural involvement of corruption in government matters is still a significant impediment to achieving and maintaining an acceptable level of civil aviation safety in Indonesia.
To what degree that may be a contributing factor in this accident is another, but related, matter.
Last edited by grizzled; 13th Apr 2010 at 23:18.
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I'm always amazed with responses in this forum when an accident like this occurs in Indonesia, as they do all too frequently, that seek to paint the whole Indonesian aviation scene with a black brush and cries of 'corruption'.
Statements like "...I had avoided flying on any Indonesian carrier at all cost long time ago..." are understandable but not helpful.
Anyone with a knowledge of Indonesian aviation will tell you that there are some very professional operators out there, both in the fixed-wing and helicopter business, that have excellent safety records. Some have reached an international standard and are permitted to fly into the EU although I understand only one does at present.
The majority of these operators have one thing in common - they have on-going contracts with major oil, gas and mining companies. It is these clients who are driving up the aviation standards, not the DGAC, and it is done by rigourous external audits and comprehensive contract requirements. These audits and contract requirements are not 'impossible standards', they are achievable but require a 'top-down' approach and commitment from the individual company - the rewards are substantial.
Grizzled, in the second paragraph of his post, sums it up nicely: "...Having said that, I have lived and worked in Indonesia (still do work there on occasion) and have a lot of direct experience with both Merpati and the Regulator. As anyone who knows Indonesia is aware, what can be said is this: The historic cultural involvement of corruption in government matters is still a significant impediment to achieving and maintaining an acceptable level of civil aviation safety in Indonesia...". I could't have have said it better.
Statements like "...I had avoided flying on any Indonesian carrier at all cost long time ago..." are understandable but not helpful.
Anyone with a knowledge of Indonesian aviation will tell you that there are some very professional operators out there, both in the fixed-wing and helicopter business, that have excellent safety records. Some have reached an international standard and are permitted to fly into the EU although I understand only one does at present.
The majority of these operators have one thing in common - they have on-going contracts with major oil, gas and mining companies. It is these clients who are driving up the aviation standards, not the DGAC, and it is done by rigourous external audits and comprehensive contract requirements. These audits and contract requirements are not 'impossible standards', they are achievable but require a 'top-down' approach and commitment from the individual company - the rewards are substantial.
Grizzled, in the second paragraph of his post, sums it up nicely: "...Having said that, I have lived and worked in Indonesia (still do work there on occasion) and have a lot of direct experience with both Merpati and the Regulator. As anyone who knows Indonesia is aware, what can be said is this: The historic cultural involvement of corruption in government matters is still a significant impediment to achieving and maintaining an acceptable level of civil aviation safety in Indonesia...". I could't have have said it better.
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@ Saint jack
I don't mean to belittle ALL Indon pilots, heck, there are a few with my present employer, but the abysmal safety record of Indonesian airlines speaks for itself. With a track record like that, can you really blame any of us for questioning Indonesian airlines in general? You said it yourself, "only one" Indonesia airline (Garuda) is permitted to fly to EU countries.
And don't you think it's quite sad (and disturbing) to have clients doing the safety auditing instead of the aviation authorities? Had those aviation authorities actually done their job instead of accepting all these under the table "extra pay", do you really think the safety record will still be so horrid? Bottom line, it dosen't matter whether there are decent indon pilots, I'm sure there are, but what good are they if they are stymied by an utterly corrupt system?
I don't mean to belittle ALL Indon pilots, heck, there are a few with my present employer, but the abysmal safety record of Indonesian airlines speaks for itself. With a track record like that, can you really blame any of us for questioning Indonesian airlines in general? You said it yourself, "only one" Indonesia airline (Garuda) is permitted to fly to EU countries.
And don't you think it's quite sad (and disturbing) to have clients doing the safety auditing instead of the aviation authorities? Had those aviation authorities actually done their job instead of accepting all these under the table "extra pay", do you really think the safety record will still be so horrid? Bottom line, it dosen't matter whether there are decent indon pilots, I'm sure there are, but what good are they if they are stymied by an utterly corrupt system?