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Unnecessary first officer...

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Unnecessary first officer...

Old 7th Apr 2010, 13:07
  #301 (permalink)  
Trash du Blanc
 
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This presentation will emphasize avionics – for civil air transport as well as unmanned systems
Two distinct areas. And they'll stay that way.

UAV's in law enforcement are already happening.....
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Old 7th Apr 2010, 17:49
  #302 (permalink)  
 
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Every sector of business is trying to reduce labor costs...

I see as a definate possibility going to a one pilot airliner...with a staff on the ground of UAV type pilots...should one of the airliners lose a pilot or two...., the UAV pilot steps in...

What is interesting about this scenario is the advantages in a completely fly by wire aircraft...

If terrorists were to take over the cockpit...it's possible they could find the controls useless, as a UAV pilot has taken over..

In a fire in the cockpit scenario, given the right technology, it's possible a fire in the cockpit forcing the pilots out, could still be flown by a pilot on the ground...

Another advantage of an on the ground UAV pilot, might be actualy having one more person monitoring, watching, noticing things....while I see it as a more 'he steps in if there is an emergency' ...having peeps on the ground on standby, might be there to talk to pilots up in the air, get sit reps, help fix problems......
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Old 7th Apr 2010, 21:00
  #303 (permalink)  
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No cost saving there then johns? How much do you think the competent UAV operator on the ground, capable of flying several different types, is going to cost, together with his equipment? Not to mention his replacement if he falls sick or gets overloaded with an emergency or the old chestnut, terrorist activity at the ground station knocking out ground to air communication.
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Old 7th Apr 2010, 21:29
  #304 (permalink)  
 
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A terrorist attack can have much more devastating effects if the terrorists hacked (rather than hijacked) the whole system in a given airspace. They could make tenths of airplanes to crash. Or cause such a mess that the system would not be able to handle the situation, resulting in possible accidents and a loss of safety.

I have aske a few ground engineers if they think there will be unmanned transport airplanes. All say the same. If that happens I will not fly! It seems they do not trust the computers very much.
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 11:33
  #305 (permalink)  
 
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This is a commercial from 1987 (Alaska Airlines). It could be used today for RyanAir, could it not?

YouTube - 1987-Alaska Airlines
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Old 14th Apr 2010, 18:12
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Fun YouTube video

It could be used today for RyanAir, could it not?
Its already in the planning stages....
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Old 17th Apr 2010, 17:36
  #307 (permalink)  
 
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Humans are always standing in the way of progress with their ridiculous, whiny "I don't want to die in a hideous fire ball" attitudes. If pax don't like the idea of flying with one pilot or no pilot, then the solution is obvious: replace them with robots/computers, who won't complain if they're destroyed and who will have plenty of disposable income after replacing humans employees in many sectors of the economy.

The ideal future is machines selling stuff to other machines and providing services for other machines, with money being moved around between machines as efficiently as possible. And Michael O'Leary being the only human being left alive, stalking the Earth as a ruthless cyborg industrialist, his head stuck on a titanium body.
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Old 17th Apr 2010, 18:08
  #308 (permalink)  
 
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...and Michael O'Leary being the only human being left alive, stalking the Earth as a ruthless cyborg industrialist, his head stuck on a titanium body.

A radical and far reaching vision for the future: be warned for this is where it will all end if we take the human element out of flying...
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Old 20th Apr 2010, 13:57
  #309 (permalink)  
 
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I always said that the next generation of aircraft would only have a flight engineer on board to keep things ticking over.
I knew we'd get our own back one day ! Long live the revolution !!
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Old 21st Apr 2010, 12:34
  #310 (permalink)  
 
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Ah touché Monsieur Mirabeau...A dish worth serving cold, especially by the cold stealy hands of a robot pilot!! And I can still hear someone calling that the fuel pumps are on....
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 05:57
  #311 (permalink)  
 
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The rumour mill at full gallop:

News from the skunk works - no more flying pilots....

Steve Chealander member of the NTSB 2007-2009 is a retired American Captain. He gave a safety presentation at recurrent training about two years ago. He opened the floor for questions an one guy asked facetiously when are we going to one pilot cockpit. Chealander said that is not funny. He said Fed Ex and UPS are now (two years ago) working on the procedures for a one pilot long haul over water operation. The pilot would be at the controls for take off and landing then go the bunk for cruise while the guy back in Memphis would take over for the cruise. One pilot passenger flights will take a bit longer to get approved. 12 years ago I was Director of Operations for the Alaska Air Guard. I went to a high level conference and this three star gave a presentation that said the exact same thing the major said. The only limitation on fighter aircraft now is the pilot. We have the technology to do everything from the ground and it will be a huge cost savings. No search and rescue, no life support systems, no backlash when we lose a plane.

So this article is right on the money.

I attended a flight safety presentation last evening from a retired AF Major test pilot from Edwards, Bill Koukourikas, now serving there as a civilian. During the course of his presentation, his statement- No future attack military aircraft within the next 15 years will have pilots in the cockpit. The last tactical aircraft with a pilot in the cockpit will be the F-35. He also indicated that within the next 10 or so years all UPS and FedX cargo flights will be with pilot-less aircraft. This prediction coming from their test shop at Edwards.

All drone testing, development etc. is taking place just south of Edwards in the Palmdale area. Sounds like a continuation of the skunk work developments of Lockheed which previously took place in that area. Simply amazing.

Hey, are we a dying breed or what??

Guess you'll have to invite your computer to "have a beer" after the day's flying is complete.

See page 2: http://www.eaa326.org/Newsletters/eaa326-4-2010.pdf
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 11:02
  #312 (permalink)  
 
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He said Fed Ex and UPS are now (two years ago) working on the procedures for a one pilot long haul over water operation.

Did Chealander also put a time frame against this being achieved? I can see the use of UAV being used on a wider basis in high risk military operations but not in civilian passenger transport. The gulf between the nature and culture of these operations is huge...and again it comes down to what the passenger is happy to pay for.

Asking whether we could do it is one thing (I am sure pilotless pax operations can be done) but asking whether we should do it is a whole different ball game....
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 11:15
  #313 (permalink)  
 
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"Did Chealander also put a time frame against this being achieved?"

"He also indicated that within the next 10 or so years all UPS and FedEx cargo flights will be with pilot-less aircraft"
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 11:53
  #314 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Coto...I'll try to pay more attention next time.

10 years is a long time in aviation....
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Old 24th Apr 2010, 01:45
  #315 (permalink)  
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Boys, I am a Fedex pilot and Flight Project Specialist in our flight test department.

Never a murmur heard at work about any of this.

We are in the process of buying 777F's at 200 mil apiece. Lots of them - and staffed with FOUR pilots a leg. Buying lots of 757's too.

And Edwards has absolutely nothing to do with our business. At all. (I know, I used to work there too.) Sounds like a TPS grad speaking outside his area of knowledge.
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Old 24th Apr 2010, 10:26
  #316 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds like a TPS grad speaking outside his area of knowledge.
I have to agree with Huck. I think its a very long while before anything like this is given serious consideration within the civilian aviation world.

Wishful thinking maybe? Not really - reality. Barring the eternal publicity seeking MR MOL - When did any of us hear any airline (including the ones you might be flying for) even mention pilotless pax operatiion in Europe?
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Old 26th Apr 2010, 00:04
  #317 (permalink)  
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Huck

Nice, honest post.

There is far too much BS on this forum.

Keep it simple. Do the work and let the company make a profit.

And look out of the windows!
 

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