ScotAirways Redundancies
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ScotAirways Redundancies
Rumours abound of base closures, plus some redundancies and aircraft disposals at ScotAirways (formerly Suckling Airways). Apparently an announcement was made to staff just before Christmas giving proposed details. Anyone wish to comment?
[ 30 December 2001: Message edited by: Norman Stanley Fletcher ]
[ 31 December 2001: Message edited by: Norman Stanley Fletcher ]</p>
[ 30 December 2001: Message edited by: Norman Stanley Fletcher ]
[ 31 December 2001: Message edited by: Norman Stanley Fletcher ]</p>
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scotair is feeling the pinch in these difficult times. This year the company has closed it's loss making Luton base with mandatory base changes for those who wanted to keep their jobs. Planned expansion into Scotland has not run smoothly. Direct competition with British European from EDI into LCY eventually forced both companies into a code share on the route and Scotair's INS-AMS route was cancelled after a few weeks. I also believe that a second aircraft added at SAM has also been moved away due to poor loads forcing more mandatory base changes for any who want to keep their job. It has also been rumoured for along time that the CBG-AMS route is struggling, but as the company HQ is at Cambridge with a large number of pilots and other employees based there a company relocation would prove costly.
A few FO's have already been made redundant while others pilots have been asked to take unpaid leave or part time contracts. I believe BALPA is currently involved with the company.
A few FO's have already been made redundant while others pilots have been asked to take unpaid leave or part time contracts. I believe BALPA is currently involved with the company.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please can we start thinking about the implications of the titles we give to our threads. I clicked on this thread because the title implies that ScotAirways HAVE made redundancies when at present this is not the case. However, many people will not have looked at this thread but seen the title and the message is now implanted that redundancies have been made when it is not yet true. I don't and have never worked for ScotAirways but if I did I would really be pi55ed off that posts without thought could in some small way effect my position.
wizzy
[ 30 December 2001: Message edited by: wysiwyg ]</p>
wizzy
[ 30 December 2001: Message edited by: wysiwyg ]</p>
This is not an idle rumour as has been suggested but is based on hard fact. An announcement was made just before Christmas by the company to its staff that 2 bases are to close (Aberdeen and Cambridge). Cambridge will continue as 'head office' but not as a flying base. Redundancy notices have already been issued to cabin crew at these bases. In addition, 2 aircraft from the fleet of 9 or 10 will be returned to Dornier ASAP. Finally 10 pilots out of about 60 will be made redundant. These cuts are in addition to those few referred to in the previous posts. The company have entered into a 30 day consultation period with BALPA where various options will be considered. There is some scope for part-time working, pay reductions etc which may change the final numbers, but that is the state of play right now
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just like to say what a shame this is - I've only had occasion to use the CBG-AMS run 2 or 3 times over the years, but it was always invaluable when I did, and such a nice way to avoid any of the London airports. Service from Suckling was always nice and friendly (albeit with midget hostesses 
)
)
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apologies, I stand corrected. You know what this site is like, sometimes we are our own worst enemies. However I see the original posting has subsequently been edited to make it a little less vague.
regards
wizzy
[ 02 January 2002: Message edited by: wysiwyg ]</p>
regards
wizzy
[ 02 January 2002: Message edited by: wysiwyg ]</p>
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: England
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.A top bunch <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
I hope they pull through.
I nominate the captain who was recently prosecuted for refusing to fill in his census form as the bloke who should negotiate with the banks. Respect to Julian <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
I hope they pull through.
I nominate the captain who was recently prosecuted for refusing to fill in his census form as the bloke who should negotiate with the banks. Respect to Julian <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
<img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wizzy, do not worry - I had to edit my first post as I knew the numbers but had to wait until figures were confirmed elsewhere (see Airbrake's post).
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Samsonite Avenue
Posts: 1,538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So ABZ to close...not good news - I take it that the LCY route will no longer exist out of ABZ????
If they have/do pull the route then I am not surprised in the slightest. BE operated the route with a 146 and then replaced it with a Dash 8 due to poor loads. Makes sense... well yes to the accountant but it is sheer folly when you downgrade from a jet to a prop when the direct competition (BA, EZY) all use jets. For Mr Businessman who wants to maximize his time, he will get the jet and not the prop that takes longer, which I think has been demonstrated in the loads with BE and now Scot Airways. Shame to see a route struggle in its early days.
MG
If they have/do pull the route then I am not surprised in the slightest. BE operated the route with a 146 and then replaced it with a Dash 8 due to poor loads. Makes sense... well yes to the accountant but it is sheer folly when you downgrade from a jet to a prop when the direct competition (BA, EZY) all use jets. For Mr Businessman who wants to maximize his time, he will get the jet and not the prop that takes longer, which I think has been demonstrated in the loads with BE and now Scot Airways. Shame to see a route struggle in its early days.
MG
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MG,
I think you obviously underestimate the performance of the "turbo-prop" which ScotAirways operate. The Do328 is the fastest a/c in its class and during climb can overtake the humble 146 with no problem. It is only at TOC that the jet a/c show their advantage over the Dornier. I doubt there is any impact on the schedule with which JEA used to operate with the 146 and the schedule which SAY operate with the Do328.
GOin' for GOld
I think you obviously underestimate the performance of the "turbo-prop" which ScotAirways operate. The Do328 is the fastest a/c in its class and during climb can overtake the humble 146 with no problem. It is only at TOC that the jet a/c show their advantage over the Dornier. I doubt there is any impact on the schedule with which JEA used to operate with the 146 and the schedule which SAY operate with the Do328.
GOin' for GOld
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Samsonite Avenue
Posts: 1,538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gold
I agree the Do -328 is fast for its class. I have heard of M.65 in the cruise and that is something not to be laughed at in a prop. I admit the Do -328 does take slightly longer but not by much but we all know that if you give Joe Public a choice of a jet or a turboprop, in most cases the jet will be the preferred option even though the turboprop will do the same job just as well. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
I agree the Do -328 is fast for its class. I have heard of M.65 in the cruise and that is something not to be laughed at in a prop. I admit the Do -328 does take slightly longer but not by much but we all know that if you give Joe Public a choice of a jet or a turboprop, in most cases the jet will be the preferred option even though the turboprop will do the same job just as well. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Guest
Posts: n/a
From today's Scotsman:
[quote]Inverness loses air link to London
John Ross
A NEW air service between Inverness and London, which was launched four months ago, is to be suspended indefinitely from this weekend because of poor passenger numbers and a lack of revenue.
Cambridge-based ScotAirways introduced new weekday and Sunday services from the Highland capital to London City airport on 10 September, with weekday flights between Inverness and Amsterdam Schipol.
The Amsterdam link was suspended indefinitely following the terrorist attacks in the US just 24 hours after the launch. The company announced yesterday the London service is also being mothballed, although it has not severed the link altogether.
Gerry Froggett, ScotAirways commercial manager, said: "We are suspending the Inverness-London City service from Sunday as a result of the trading conditions we are finding at the moment.
"Both the numbers we were carrying and the revenue we received per passenger was not at the levels we would have liked to have seen it at.
"It is an increasingly difficult time for airlines to launch new things and we launched the service on 10 September, so it did not have the greatest start date given what happened 24 hours later.
"Had it been normal times I am sure we would have seen Inverness-London City as being a great success. New routes are always a big drain on resources of airlines and in the current climate this is not a drain on resources which we can continue to sustain."
He said the situation will be kept under review. ScotAirways, which has the Stagecoach millionaires Brian Souter and Ann Gloag as shareholders, were using 31-seat aircraft on the flights which, it was hoped, would increase from once a day to up to four times a day.<hr></blockquote>
[quote]Inverness loses air link to London
John Ross
A NEW air service between Inverness and London, which was launched four months ago, is to be suspended indefinitely from this weekend because of poor passenger numbers and a lack of revenue.
Cambridge-based ScotAirways introduced new weekday and Sunday services from the Highland capital to London City airport on 10 September, with weekday flights between Inverness and Amsterdam Schipol.
The Amsterdam link was suspended indefinitely following the terrorist attacks in the US just 24 hours after the launch. The company announced yesterday the London service is also being mothballed, although it has not severed the link altogether.
Gerry Froggett, ScotAirways commercial manager, said: "We are suspending the Inverness-London City service from Sunday as a result of the trading conditions we are finding at the moment.
"Both the numbers we were carrying and the revenue we received per passenger was not at the levels we would have liked to have seen it at.
"It is an increasingly difficult time for airlines to launch new things and we launched the service on 10 September, so it did not have the greatest start date given what happened 24 hours later.
"Had it been normal times I am sure we would have seen Inverness-London City as being a great success. New routes are always a big drain on resources of airlines and in the current climate this is not a drain on resources which we can continue to sustain."
He said the situation will be kept under review. ScotAirways, which has the Stagecoach millionaires Brian Souter and Ann Gloag as shareholders, were using 31-seat aircraft on the flights which, it was hoped, would increase from once a day to up to four times a day.<hr></blockquote>
Whilst the Do328 may be a quick turbo prop it is not quicker than a 146. It climbs at 200knts, it will cruise at about M.53 at FL310 and has a VNo of 270knts which will lead to the speed horn sounding continuously, leading most crews to fly at 260knts. The 146 is quicker in all segments accept the last 15 miles when you can leave the Dorniers speed higher until much later, like any other turbo prop. I have flown both, the Dornier has the best flight deck but for speed and pax comfort the 146 has the edge, although the time difference is only 10 mins at best from EDI/GLA into City.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Where the Money Takes Me
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also bad news for Cambridge, which is / was planning to build a new terminal to improve its image, and not before time.
Trust Cambridge, after years of talking about something, they finally seem to be serious, when the airline pulls the plug.
I know Stansted is just down the road and the Lo cost boys rule big time, but Cambridge is the UK's richest area and it cannot be too long before someone grasps the nettle and makes it a huge success. Probably the Sucklings just ran out of patience?!?!
Yes, we all know Marshalls move slowly, snail-like in fact, but it would be great to see it develop as it really should.
Chicken and egg situation with airline / airport expansion i.e. who would move first, but now it looks like we're left with only the coop.
Trust Cambridge, after years of talking about something, they finally seem to be serious, when the airline pulls the plug.
I know Stansted is just down the road and the Lo cost boys rule big time, but Cambridge is the UK's richest area and it cannot be too long before someone grasps the nettle and makes it a huge success. Probably the Sucklings just ran out of patience?!?!
Yes, we all know Marshalls move slowly, snail-like in fact, but it would be great to see it develop as it really should.
Chicken and egg situation with airline / airport expansion i.e. who would move first, but now it looks like we're left with only the coop.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: London
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a real shame. Scotairways are really good. A bit of stuff and nonsense about Dorniers versus 146, the scheduled difference is very small, and would only be significant on a longer flight. I think the Dorniers are more comfortable and the staff better than on Brit European.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have heard that the terminal at Cambridge WILL go ahead as planned. There are planty of other people in the wings who will fill that terminal.
Cambridge is a first class airport, great runway, nav aids and now a new radar, airport director and handling agent. It is just a matter of time until it gets busier, Marshalls have done OK over the last 100 years by taking things slowly.
Watch Cambridge, Stanstead is so busy (and expensive)maybe the next London airport?
Hey, what do I know, I only teach people to fly....
Cambridge is a first class airport, great runway, nav aids and now a new radar, airport director and handling agent. It is just a matter of time until it gets busier, Marshalls have done OK over the last 100 years by taking things slowly.
Watch Cambridge, Stanstead is so busy (and expensive)maybe the next London airport?
Hey, what do I know, I only teach people to fly....
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: A land beyond time
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 146 isn't just a bit quicker, it's a LOT quicker. Normal climb is 280kts (as opposed to 200 or so for the 328), cruise is M0.70 or thereabouts, and it is absolutely no problem to fly the 146 at 250 kts to about 8 miles or so.
Flew on a BE 146 a few months ago on the EDI-LCY sector when I was back in the UK, and wasn't surprised to see a 328 being passed so quickly it seemed to be in reverse at about 80kts!!!
The only thing better on the Dornier is the flight deck... I actually chose BE over ScotAirways as I found the BE cabin staff a lot more friendly!!
Flew on a BE 146 a few months ago on the EDI-LCY sector when I was back in the UK, and wasn't surprised to see a 328 being passed so quickly it seemed to be in reverse at about 80kts!!!
The only thing better on the Dornier is the flight deck... I actually chose BE over ScotAirways as I found the BE cabin staff a lot more friendly!!