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Austrian Airlines Tailstrike in BEJ on 29th

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Austrian Airlines Tailstrike in BEJ on 29th

Old 31st Jan 2010, 08:10
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Austrian Airlines Tailstrike in PEK on 29th

Austrian B767 continous to VIE after Tailstrike in PEK on the 29th....

Is that normal ops in Austria? What does the B767 chklist say?

Photos: Boeing 767-3Z9/ER Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Last edited by flaphandlemover; 31st Jan 2010 at 17:58.
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 09:27
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Hello

Not sure of the SOPs of Austrian but I do know that 763s are fitted with a tailskid for such incidents

BRgds
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 10:01
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It is definitely not a normal procedure to continue flight. Two possibilities:
1. He did not realise the tail strike -> Should hefly an aircraft not getting it ?
2. He realised it and continued -> take his/her licence !
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 11:40
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The 763 has a tailskid with a compression strut. AFAIK as long as the strut is not fully compressed (implying no weight placed onthe skid), it is legal to continue. Full compression of the strut will give a warning message. In this case all that needs to be done is a replacement of the skid wear surface.
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 12:08
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Full compression of the strut will give a warning message
Really? For skid compression?


Pretty sure that the only Tailskid msg on a 767 is for when it hasn't extended/retracted. (ie Disagree)

Maybe a customer option for the compression msg?

767 QRH:
Condition: Tailskid/fuselage contact with runway on takeoff.

CAUTION: Do not pressurise the aircraft due to possible structural damage

CABIN ALTITUDE MODE SELECTOR ....................MAN
CABIN ALTITUDE MANUAL CONTROL ................. CLIMB
Position outflowvalve fully open to depressurise aircraft.

Level off at lowest safe altitude.
Plan to land at the nearest Available Airport

If climb above 11,000ft is required:

PACK CONTROL SELECTORS (Both) ............... OFF
[Ensures cabin will remain depressurised when the outflow valve closes automatically at 11,000ft.]

Do not accomplish the following checklist:
CABIN AUTOMATIC INOPERATIVE
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 12:22
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Difficult to imagine that nothing was felt looking at that pic, but you can never tell.
Once had someone do the same right in front of me whilst sitting at a runway intersection in Shannon.
We told the tower we were fairly sure that the B738 that had just rotated had suffered a tailstrike, they told him, he decided to continue to the Canary Islands.
He was lucky, but as we read our own QRH for the same type whilst waiting our turn, we couldn't help grimacing at the decision.
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 12:23
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AUA 767's

Those tired old 767's at AUA need to go to the bone yard anyway. I have rarely sat in such an old steamer across the pond as in OE-LAT recently. Many third world airlines have far better fleets. What a sad state for a once proud airline.
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 12:34
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Strike or scrape ?

Just looking at that picture doesn't tell you anything
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 12:35
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According to the photo: No runway markers in sight, so it was not an "end of pavement" desperation to jerk the airplane off the pavement, just poor rotation technique.
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 12:38
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Just looking at that picture doesn't tell you anything

True. The smoke may have come from a cockroach smoking a large cuban cigar in the middle of the runway.
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 13:06
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Pretty sure that the only Tailskid msg on a 767 is for when it hasn't extended/retracted. (ie Disagree)

It was a long time ago when I had this discussion on 763 vs. 762, but I do recall that a half inch compression of the strut would result in a 'TAILSKID' message. I don't have access to an ops manual now, so take this as a qualified opinion, I could well be mistaken.

It is clear that any 'indication' of a tail strike requires return to land. The point is that a skid scrape that does not result in sufficient compression of the strut does not qualify as tail strike.

Is the QRH you quote 762 or 763 ? There is no retractable skid/tailstrike indication on the 762.

Btw on the highest resolution version of the photo it is pretty clear, that the tailskid is not compressed at all, there is still a good 20-30 cm clearance between the fuselage and the runway.

Last edited by andrasz; 31st Jan 2010 at 13:20.
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 13:24
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Close examination of the picture appears to show the Tailskid fully extended with the aft fuselage well clear of the runway. Unfortunately we cannot determine the initial contact point and initial compression (if any).
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 14:03
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Only a position disagree brings on the tailskid light above the gear lever and the EICAS message.

There is no other indication in the flight deck.

Did the flight continue on or is that just an assumption reading the photographers note?
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 19:45
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M. Braun, Spin Doctor from the Alps.
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Old 1st Feb 2010, 01:39
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Return ASAP

The flight was able to continue normally. None of the Crew and Pax were in danger at any moment. Never the less the aircraft was thoroughly inspected in Vienna without any technical findings.
Had I been on that plane I would have wished that it land ASAP and not go above 11000.
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Old 1st Feb 2010, 06:29
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Many years ago I tried something similar with a B727 cargo plane:

After takeoff when we selected the gearlever to off, the tailskid-light illuminated. When selecting the gearlever to up, the light went out. (The tailskid retracts with the gear). A not correct adjusted switch was suspected, since the light went out with pressure on. We all agreed to continue the flight.
After landing the Flight Engineer would inspect the switch. It turned out the tailskid had been in contact with the runway scraped and compressed by 1 inch (limit is 4 inches) but undamaged - but the switch should be adjusted.
No other parts of the aircraft had been in contact with the runway. A report was of course filed and the aircraft was released for flight.
None of us had suspected a tailskid contact, and nothing was felt.

I have heard of similar situations with passenger flights, and here the cabin crew in aft will hear the noise. If they do not tell the cockpit, they will not know if they have no other indications.

Walder
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Old 1st Feb 2010, 12:47
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Cabin crew in the rear galley should have felt/heard something, did they say anything to the flight deck crew? As previously mentioned there is no indication on the flight deck of a tailstrike. Tailskid eicas is telling you that the tailskid is not in the position selected ie it extends/retracts with the gear, it is not an indication of a tailstrike.
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Old 1st Feb 2010, 13:51
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Re: Cabin Crew

Cabin crew in the rear galley should have felt/heard something, did they say anything to the flight deck crew? As previously mentioned there is no indication on the flight deck of a tailstrike. Tailskid eicas is telling you that the tailskid is not in the position selected ie it extends/retracts with the gear, it is not an indication of a tailstrike.
Noise and rumbles are subjective during takeoff, are the CC trained to interpret a tail strike? e.g. carts unlock, lavatory panels dislodge, overheads pop open, passengers scream etc.
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 11:51
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must be a strange company anyway,
going into VIE last summer ATC asked an preceeding Austrian A320 to speed up during descent after reporting 230 IAS. The pilots agreed to a maximum of 250 ????
What kind of regulations do they have with Austrian as there were many Austrian flights following inbound.
Very strange company!
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 14:15
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@max speed:
Yes, it must be a "very strange company".

But there might have been a reason why they did object to speed up to more than 250 and they did not see a reason to tell YOU about it.

BTW: When You post things like "going into VIE last summer" You should be aware that Your nick shows "Location LOWW" below, so You should go into VIE day in day out..
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