UA landing at Newark
Thanks to the mods for cleaning this thread up. The fact that my posting went with the clean-up is just fine with me, as I was only responding to the inaccuracies that were posted.
This was posted today by aviation-safety.net:
This was posted today by aviation-safety.net:
An Airbus A319-131, registered N816UA, was damaged when it landed at Newark-Liberty International Airport, NJ (EWR) with its right hand main landing gear retracted. The occupants were evacuated using the emergency slides.United Airlines flight UA634 departed Chicago-O'Hare International Airport, IL (ORD) left the gate at 05:51 on a domestic passenger flight to Newark-Liberty International Airport, NJ (EWR). The flight was expected to land at Newark about 09:00 local time. While on finals, about 08:54 the crew apparently experienced problems getting the undercarriage down and locked. The crew carried out a missed approach and climbed to an altitude of 2000 feet. The flight circled the area West of the airport before a new approach was carried out to runway 04L. The airplane landed with the right main gear retracted and came to rest on the runway with the nr.2 engine touching the runway surface.
Last edited by J.O.; 11th Jan 2010 at 16:04.
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West Coast
I made statements...including the one about gear doors supporting the landing gear and a number of folks agreed (though they didn't mention my favorite airliner...but they named some good ones)
tell me about your background.
mine (atpmelcfiimei 737 type)
soloed in 1975 at a WEST COAST airport.
and I've flown with sully.
now, you speak up.
tell me about your background.
mine (atpmelcfiimei 737 type)
soloed in 1975 at a WEST COAST airport.
and I've flown with sully.
now, you speak up.
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Dumped Fuel? I doubt it. Unless the weather was really bad there would be very little fuel to dump when they got to their destination. They probably had just enough on board to run through the Emergency Checklist before they had to start thinking about some place to put it down. Can a A320 even dump fuel?
(I know from experience..... I had a nose gear problem once in an F28. Ran the checklist, did a tower fly-by and landed on fumes.)
(I know from experience..... I had a nose gear problem once in an F28. Ran the checklist, did a tower fly-by and landed on fumes.)
I have not flown with Sully. I didn't know that was a prerequisite. I haven't landed the space shuttle either.
Former Marine, Helo's. Current 121 pilot. CRJ, B-737 types, a Scorpio and I like long walks on the beach.
Do we need to measure willies as well?
Really, on an anonymous BB? Well then prognosticate away. Perhaps we can do away with the NTSB and replace it with pprune.
Wait till all the facts come out.
Former Marine, Helo's. Current 121 pilot. CRJ, B-737 types, a Scorpio and I like long walks on the beach.
Do we need to measure willies as well?
and a number of folks agreed
Wait till all the facts come out.
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west coast...a helo pilot...that says it so very well.
you asked for facts...didn't specifiy which ones.
and the a320, to the other guy, doesn't dump fuel.
very few narrowbody planes do...its the really long range stuff that can dump...even some early 767's can't dump fuel (option for the airlines). A few air canada DC9's could dump fuel, but modern narrowbodies don't (the ones in common use today)
you asked for facts...didn't specifiy which ones.
and the a320, to the other guy, doesn't dump fuel.
very few narrowbody planes do...its the really long range stuff that can dump...even some early 767's can't dump fuel (option for the airlines). A few air canada DC9's could dump fuel, but modern narrowbodies don't (the ones in common use today)
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Indeed A319 does NOT dump fuel and when you choose to use the Gravity L/G Extension the doors automatically drop and stay there, it has nothing to do with supporting or not the landing gear. Also the RAT would be out because of the same checklist.
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speaking of slides
it is often said that the evacuation will probably end up hurting more people than anything else.
wondering, why, an airport as well equippped as newark, the captain elected to use the slides.
portable stairs should have been the first choice in a non time critical situation...plenty of CFR should have prevented any chance of fire.
wondering, why, an airport as well equippped as newark, the captain elected to use the slides.
portable stairs should have been the first choice in a non time critical situation...plenty of CFR should have prevented any chance of fire.
If I had just landed a plane and dragged an engine along the tarmac my last thought would be to wait for the stairs to pitch up - An A320 is not designed to dump fuel but if you rupture a line or a tank then watch it gush out - who in their right mind would NOT blow the slides?
I'm sure every pilot when faced with such a scenario thinks 'I dont care if I get through this in one piece, I just hope everyone on pprune thinks I did the right thing....'
I'm sure every pilot when faced with such a scenario thinks 'I dont care if I get through this in one piece, I just hope everyone on pprune thinks I did the right thing....'
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Just a question regarding poss div, why not use KSWF ? Only 60 miles from the city, and would alleviate disrupting a high traffic destination !
Am I just thinking logically or being a numpty ?
Am I just thinking logically or being a numpty ?
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where is 411a today
surprised he hasn't suggested hanging the FO by his/her suspenders out the door midflight and bashing the gear door down so problem resolved. Sure he or Steven Seagal has done this before......
or does this idea belong on the real vs playstation FO thread...?
G
or does this idea belong on the real vs playstation FO thread...?
G
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it is often said that the evacuation will probably end up hurting more people than anything else.
wondering, why, an airport as well equippped as newark, the captain elected to use the slides.
portable stairs should have been the first choice in a non time critical situation...plenty of CFR should have prevented any chance of fire.
wondering, why, an airport as well equippped as newark, the captain elected to use the slides.
portable stairs should have been the first choice in a non time critical situation...plenty of CFR should have prevented any chance of fire.
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slides vs. stairs
of course the danger of fire is a concern...but the plane didn't catch on fire did it?
CFR was right there
the slides could have been used if things hadn't gone so well.
The builders of good planes conceive of landing ''gear up'' and protect certain areas for this eventuality.
Having trained for this and other problems, I would have asked the fire chief to monitor the possibility of fire and advise me minute by minute via radio or BULL HORN of fire and to spray area as a precaution.
I've seen too many people do things automatically and not with real thought. Certainly if the fire chief said: fuel leak, fire likely...fuel observed leaking...that might be a different story. also, it is hopeful that the fuel valves were properly closed at the right time. wing and engine valves.
AS to using SWF...it is a good idea...but unlikely that there is major maintenance used by United at that otherwise fine airport.
CFR was right there
the slides could have been used if things hadn't gone so well.
The builders of good planes conceive of landing ''gear up'' and protect certain areas for this eventuality.
Having trained for this and other problems, I would have asked the fire chief to monitor the possibility of fire and advise me minute by minute via radio or BULL HORN of fire and to spray area as a precaution.
I've seen too many people do things automatically and not with real thought. Certainly if the fire chief said: fuel leak, fire likely...fuel observed leaking...that might be a different story. also, it is hopeful that the fuel valves were properly closed at the right time. wing and engine valves.
AS to using SWF...it is a good idea...but unlikely that there is major maintenance used by United at that otherwise fine airport.
Sorry, protectthehornet, but when it comes to fires and evacuations, seconds save lives. I am not prepared to waste them on your "what if" scenarios when I'm in an airplane that has sustained significant damage to the structures immediately below and adjacent to the fuel tanks.
Bear
I'm with you. I'm only helo guy though. Albeit with about 10K of fixed wing time.
I wouldn't ask anyone not there, especially one who proffers opinions about just about every mishap about the facts of this incident. When the NTSB arrives at it's findings, then I might seek out the facts. If I wanted opinion I'd ask you.
I'm with you. I'm only helo guy though. Albeit with about 10K of fixed wing time.
you asked for facts...didn't specifiy which ones.
Last edited by West Coast; 12th Jan 2010 at 21:59.
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Bear
at our airline, we train to really evaluate things...quickly of course...but the plane didn't catch on fire did it?
a precautionary blast of foam on the good gear (those brakes were probably hot) and a blast of foam around the contact points near the engine and or wing tip might have been in order.
I guess you haven't flown to florida much with dozens of older folks...send someone down a slide at age 20 isn't the same at age 80.
And tiger...there wouldn't be any wait for stairs...I would have ordered them there, right behind the fire trucks, and they would have been in position prior to the FAF for my approach.
And remember boys and girls, those slides don't compensate for a plane that is on its side with gear retracted.
I stand by what I've said> I don't think I would have evacuated...I would have arranged things like I mentioned above.
and again...the plane didn't catch fire did it?
Blindly evacuating isn't always the right thing to do...neither is waiting around while those around you are burning up.
and my moniker: protect the hornet
refers to a line from a famous film: "The Purple Heart".
either way...let us hope we never have anything but boring flights
a precautionary blast of foam on the good gear (those brakes were probably hot) and a blast of foam around the contact points near the engine and or wing tip might have been in order.
I guess you haven't flown to florida much with dozens of older folks...send someone down a slide at age 20 isn't the same at age 80.
And tiger...there wouldn't be any wait for stairs...I would have ordered them there, right behind the fire trucks, and they would have been in position prior to the FAF for my approach.
And remember boys and girls, those slides don't compensate for a plane that is on its side with gear retracted.
I stand by what I've said> I don't think I would have evacuated...I would have arranged things like I mentioned above.
and again...the plane didn't catch fire did it?
Blindly evacuating isn't always the right thing to do...neither is waiting around while those around you are burning up.
and my moniker: protect the hornet
refers to a line from a famous film: "The Purple Heart".
either way...let us hope we never have anything but boring flights
Last edited by protectthehornet; 12th Jan 2010 at 23:41.