jmc pilots role over and accept pay deal?
jmc pilots role over and accept pay deal?
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Shocking result considering the amount of negative feeling about the pay offer. I would really love to know where the yes votes came from! Everyone that I spoke to was extremely against the deal and thought that it was a total insult!
So much for BALPA flexing their muscles and doing something for their supporters. They didn't have a chance. I guess there must have been a pro managment group, meeting behind closed doors and deciding that jmc do not deserve to have pay increases in line with inflation.
SHOCKED!!!!!!!!
Flaps..
So much for BALPA flexing their muscles and doing something for their supporters. They didn't have a chance. I guess there must have been a pro managment group, meeting behind closed doors and deciding that jmc do not deserve to have pay increases in line with inflation.
SHOCKED!!!!!!!!
Flaps..
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It's a very similar story to Britannia's recent pay shenanigans. BALPA bent over backwards to recommend it to the members. The second recommendation prior to the second ballot contained a worrying amount of patronising exhortations as to how stupid we were not to recognise the outstanding benefits (the deal had not been improved in the "improved" offer). In Britannia,it's becoming increasingly difficult to see the wood for the trees in respect of management and BALPA.
Apologies for being off the thread slightly, it's odd that the BALPA line is consistent through different company councils.
[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: shlittlenellie ]
Apologies for being off the thread slightly, it's odd that the BALPA line is consistent through different company councils.
[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: shlittlenellie ]
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Flap_Actuator - a 3% pay increase is above the rate of inflation! Considering the state of the economy, my personal observation is that I think it was a sensible thing to do. Any hardline attitude where it's 30% or nothing would almost certainly have resulted in a flurry of P45s. Now is most certainly not the time to be adding costs to the bottom line in an industry where every cent counts - especially in companies like Just Might Collapse.
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Guvnor
don't talk total b****ks all of the time, have a day off now and then, perhaps today?
There is as much chance of JMC collapsing as there is of you ever starting a proper airline.
don't talk total b****ks all of the time, have a day off now and then, perhaps today?
There is as much chance of JMC collapsing as there is of you ever starting a proper airline.
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Guvnor,
you seem to enjoy referring to JMC as "Just Might Collapse" - why?
How should we refer to the company you claimed to be starting - A Sad Sharade?
(Yes I know the spelling is not right but ASS seemed appropriate)
you seem to enjoy referring to JMC as "Just Might Collapse" - why?
How should we refer to the company you claimed to be starting - A Sad Sharade?
(Yes I know the spelling is not right but ASS seemed appropriate)
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How much do you think the engineers maintaining your fleet are worth? 3% of £37000 isn't much compared with the salaries you lot pull for 10% of the work.
GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Bus,
As an ex- engineeer who is now flying, I can tell you that your comments are crap.
Without fear of contradiction when it comes to who works hardest,and social disruption etc, its no contest, and incidentally for a lot less than your 37k !
Biggest moan i used to hear amongst my Engineer colleagues, was a lack of respect.
Now i wonder why??? When you have done both jobs then you can give us a balanced view !
Your comments are a little rich for a "conehead" !!
As an ex- engineeer who is now flying, I can tell you that your comments are crap.
Without fear of contradiction when it comes to who works hardest,and social disruption etc, its no contest, and incidentally for a lot less than your 37k !
Biggest moan i used to hear amongst my Engineer colleagues, was a lack of respect.
Now i wonder why??? When you have done both jobs then you can give us a balanced view !
Your comments are a little rich for a "conehead" !!
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Oh how depressing to see yet another thread where Guvnor, and Bus429 ('the pilots friend' oh yeah!)have to stick their unwelcome oars in. Guys, this is 'Pprune' (for pilots!). You have nothing to say that is relevant or interesting, and you are wasting my modem time. Why doesn't the engineer take his crap to an engineering forum- isn't it a bit sad you have so much time to go poking fun to amuse yourself? And Guvnor.....who are you? Are you a frightfully important airline executive running big companies? Not!
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Tailscrape,
Not all pilots have access to the JMC forum.
The other problem, is that if you have the discussions always in private, you don't get reality checks by compairing to your peers. That is usally the problem with independant unions, the only people they have their reality checks with are management, and as a result they get taken advantage of. That can happen with any group however.
That being said, if you get your 3 percent EVERY year, you would eventually do as well as United and Delta as they hadn't had a raise since the very early 90s. so 3 times 7 years or so would be a 21 percent raise over the same time period. The problem is next year they repaint the aircraft again and piss away another 200,000,000 pounds in yet another "rebranding" and then say they need money from you. Then you never catch the big boys.
And as another display of poor managment, a 50.1 percent deal LOOKS great to the bean counters, but do you really want fully half your workforce feeling slighted? Especially in a service industry? Way to rally the troops! Yessiree building that team!
Cheers
Wino
[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: Wino ]
Not all pilots have access to the JMC forum.
The other problem, is that if you have the discussions always in private, you don't get reality checks by compairing to your peers. That is usally the problem with independant unions, the only people they have their reality checks with are management, and as a result they get taken advantage of. That can happen with any group however.
That being said, if you get your 3 percent EVERY year, you would eventually do as well as United and Delta as they hadn't had a raise since the very early 90s. so 3 times 7 years or so would be a 21 percent raise over the same time period. The problem is next year they repaint the aircraft again and piss away another 200,000,000 pounds in yet another "rebranding" and then say they need money from you. Then you never catch the big boys.
And as another display of poor managment, a 50.1 percent deal LOOKS great to the bean counters, but do you really want fully half your workforce feeling slighted? Especially in a service industry? Way to rally the troops! Yessiree building that team!
Cheers
Wino
[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: Wino ]
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The pay and conditions of every UK airline is as a direct result of British Airways falling back over the last decade or so.
If BA pilots stand together (with BALPA's support) and make their new entrant rates considerably more attractive then these companies will have to follow suit. Otherwise they will lose many of their workforce over the next 5 years to BA.
BA's pay offer negotiations 2001 are the most important round of talks for UK pilots for a long time.
If BA pilots stand together (with BALPA's support) and make their new entrant rates considerably more attractive then these companies will have to follow suit. Otherwise they will lose many of their workforce over the next 5 years to BA.
BA's pay offer negotiations 2001 are the most important round of talks for UK pilots for a long time.
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Notso Fantastic.Some of your comments are way off line PPrune was originally set up as a pilots forum,but if you read the home page it is now open to Air Traffic Controllers,Cabin Crew,Operations,Rostering staff and anyone involved in proffesional aviation.
I think the point Bus was making concerning the JMC pay award was why should pilots recieve a far greater percentage on a basic wage which compared to some staff in the airline is two or three times the ammount.
I had a glance at your profile and see that your interests in this order are money,money and money.What about job satisfaction and cosideration for your fellow workers,or are you of the opinion that if a person doesn't fly aircraft for a living they are not entitled to a decent living.I also find your expression engineering crap quite offensive.is that all engineers are to people like yourself.I suggest to go into Jet blast and read the thread concerning names for pilots.Comments like yours do not help in good working practices.To other aviators please dont think my opinion of all flight crew are as such I have always had the upmost resepct for all my fellow workers no matter what position they hold within the industry but a will not tolerate blatant arrogance.
I think the point Bus was making concerning the JMC pay award was why should pilots recieve a far greater percentage on a basic wage which compared to some staff in the airline is two or three times the ammount.
I had a glance at your profile and see that your interests in this order are money,money and money.What about job satisfaction and cosideration for your fellow workers,or are you of the opinion that if a person doesn't fly aircraft for a living they are not entitled to a decent living.I also find your expression engineering crap quite offensive.is that all engineers are to people like yourself.I suggest to go into Jet blast and read the thread concerning names for pilots.Comments like yours do not help in good working practices.To other aviators please dont think my opinion of all flight crew are as such I have always had the upmost resepct for all my fellow workers no matter what position they hold within the industry but a will not tolerate blatant arrogance.
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Pay is all about supply and demand, and the fact is we are entering a period of great demand for pilots. When this is combined with the poor payrises/pay freezes over the last few years then I think we will see some large rises in the near future. Pilots pay HAS decreased, relative to the national average pay rise over the last five years.
With regard to United, whilst their pay was frozen for a number of years they were offered alternatives, such as stock options and pilot seats on the board.
Bus,I have no problem with you getting a large salary increase if you can achieve it. Why do you have a problem?
cheers zzz
With regard to United, whilst their pay was frozen for a number of years they were offered alternatives, such as stock options and pilot seats on the board.
Bus,I have no problem with you getting a large salary increase if you can achieve it. Why do you have a problem?
cheers zzz