jmc pilots role over and accept pay deal?
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Airboeing - so you agree then that as far as non-system monitoring productivity is concerned, you're earning your money doing the (undeniably hard/risky) part - landing the aircraft. How many minutes in total does that add up to?
As far as salaries are concerned, I've never said that they should be the same for all tasks - what I have said is that pay increases should be equal and across the board.
As far as salaries are concerned, I've never said that they should be the same for all tasks - what I have said is that pay increases should be equal and across the board.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Hey Guv,
next time we get an engine failure, ill get the (valued) purser in to deal with it and i'll go serve some tea, sounds a fair swap
to me...gosh what a clever bloke you are!
By the way i'm tristar rated, can i have a job? where can i look forward to flying to?
How about some of your drivers letting us know how they feel about your comments???
whoops.......
next time we get an engine failure, ill get the (valued) purser in to deal with it and i'll go serve some tea, sounds a fair swap
to me...gosh what a clever bloke you are!
By the way i'm tristar rated, can i have a job? where can i look forward to flying to?
How about some of your drivers letting us know how they feel about your comments???
whoops.......
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Guvnor: So your economics theory is to pay the pilots pro rata for the time spent during landing the aircraft only. You just go from strength to strength in your ludicrous and jaundiced view of pilots. But still and all I will sign up for this scheme as long as you promise that senior managers will be paid according to their profitabilty but measured by my standards not theirs i.e. NOT on the backs of everyone else. Note the words THEIR profitability, not mine.
But in the meantime remember these words,? "Personally, I'd say that there are far more deserving groups, such as the ground engineers (who have the ultimate safety responsibility for the aircraft); the cabin crew (who have the ultimate safety responsibility for the passengers); and let's not forget the air traffic controllers without whom you'd all be in very serious trouble". So put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is and pay these very people the going rate for the job. Oh, you are? Exactly, that's what it is all about.(Its ok I don't think you have control over ATC yet)
Name just one airline that has gone belly up due to pilots's salaries and I will name 100 that have done so due to incompetent management. Then there's the ones that never even got started, hint hint. Need a clue? Answer, probably due to exhorbitant pilot demands eh? Certainly not at your going rate of $4,000 for a captain whilst under training. You need a reality check. No don't tell me you have a stack of CVs just waiting, I know.
But in the meantime remember these words,? "Personally, I'd say that there are far more deserving groups, such as the ground engineers (who have the ultimate safety responsibility for the aircraft); the cabin crew (who have the ultimate safety responsibility for the passengers); and let's not forget the air traffic controllers without whom you'd all be in very serious trouble". So put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is and pay these very people the going rate for the job. Oh, you are? Exactly, that's what it is all about.(Its ok I don't think you have control over ATC yet)
Name just one airline that has gone belly up due to pilots's salaries and I will name 100 that have done so due to incompetent management. Then there's the ones that never even got started, hint hint. Need a clue? Answer, probably due to exhorbitant pilot demands eh? Certainly not at your going rate of $4,000 for a captain whilst under training. You need a reality check. No don't tell me you have a stack of CVs just waiting, I know.
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Airboeing - over 300 CVs at the last count, thank you.
I reiterate that whilst there are different rates of pay for different jobs, I don't see any reason whi - and no one has been able to provide such a reason on this, the BA or any other thread - why pilots should receive a greater % increase than the rest of their colleagues.
When it comes to pay, I have no problems at all with paying high (but reasonable) levels to pilots, as our website shows.
Incidentally, I agree with you re management pay. It's management's responsibility to make sure that they have the right assets (people, aircraft etc) in place to maximise both revenues and profitability. That doesn't stop it being a team effort though!
Perhaps you should do what I did and go get yourself a copy of Nuts! - Herb Kelleher and Southwest's biography.
Now that's how you run an airline!
I reiterate that whilst there are different rates of pay for different jobs, I don't see any reason whi - and no one has been able to provide such a reason on this, the BA or any other thread - why pilots should receive a greater % increase than the rest of their colleagues.
When it comes to pay, I have no problems at all with paying high (but reasonable) levels to pilots, as our website shows.
Incidentally, I agree with you re management pay. It's management's responsibility to make sure that they have the right assets (people, aircraft etc) in place to maximise both revenues and profitability. That doesn't stop it being a team effort though!
Perhaps you should do what I did and go get yourself a copy of Nuts! - Herb Kelleher and Southwest's biography.
Now that's how you run an airline!
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Guvnor, why don't you set up your own forum? you could call it "the Guvnor's way or else" or " Know it all don't ask" if anyone has anything to add about the JMC dont dare upset the boat appraoch to flying then let's get back to the issue at hand.
So endeth the lesson.
So endeth the lesson.
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Guvnor
"I reiterate that whilst there are different rates of pay for different jobs, I don't see any reason whi - and no one has been able to provide such a reason on this, the BA or any other thread - why pilots should receive a greater % increase than the rest of their colleagues"
I'll have one more go at answering your question but that is it. Whatever you reply this my lot (I think !)
I don't believe pilots are in fact asking for a greater % increase than any other staff per se. What they are after and are disappointed in is the size of the pay increase full stop. If we/they could achieve a significant increase in the order that we believe is reasonble then I for one, and I suspect everone else, would be quite happy for all to have that same increase. But I am not here to bat for them, that is their job.
It so happens that JMC awarded(imposed) a 3.5% increase to(on) all other staff BEFORE pilot negotiations were anywhere near complete. Therefore when the pilots were eventually awarded 3.5% and had the temerity to express disatisfaction at this you and others accuse thenm of wanting more than the other staff. That is not the case. Do you see?
What if the company had not imposed any increase on the others until after the pilots settled and the pilots had achieved, say 6% (I wish !!) then it is obvious to me that this is what the other troops would have received also. Why do you think management tell non represented staff what they are getting in the first place? Quite a clever move really because they can forsee people like you immediately jumping on the band wagon protesting when the pilots tried to up that figure. Get it?
"I reiterate that whilst there are different rates of pay for different jobs, I don't see any reason whi - and no one has been able to provide such a reason on this, the BA or any other thread - why pilots should receive a greater % increase than the rest of their colleagues"
I'll have one more go at answering your question but that is it. Whatever you reply this my lot (I think !)
I don't believe pilots are in fact asking for a greater % increase than any other staff per se. What they are after and are disappointed in is the size of the pay increase full stop. If we/they could achieve a significant increase in the order that we believe is reasonble then I for one, and I suspect everone else, would be quite happy for all to have that same increase. But I am not here to bat for them, that is their job.
It so happens that JMC awarded(imposed) a 3.5% increase to(on) all other staff BEFORE pilot negotiations were anywhere near complete. Therefore when the pilots were eventually awarded 3.5% and had the temerity to express disatisfaction at this you and others accuse thenm of wanting more than the other staff. That is not the case. Do you see?
What if the company had not imposed any increase on the others until after the pilots settled and the pilots had achieved, say 6% (I wish !!) then it is obvious to me that this is what the other troops would have received also. Why do you think management tell non represented staff what they are getting in the first place? Quite a clever move really because they can forsee people like you immediately jumping on the band wagon protesting when the pilots tried to up that figure. Get it?
