BA - 1800 jobs to go this year
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Large Jet - you ask why "If the likes of Ryanair, Easyjet and Go can all make money carrying passengers around Europe, we can't BA?"
Well, BA tried that. Remember Go?
A full service airline is completely different from a low cost one - it's like trying to compare apples with potatoes. BA's overhead per aircraft is something like fifteen times that of one of the low cost boys - and it's not all just 'suits'!
As for your claims that BA's full fares are cheaper than those on the low cost carriers, I've just done an exercise here, and have compared BA's full fare economy fares LON-GLA peak flights departing 12 Sep returning 13 Sep with the unrestricted return fares of GO, BD, FR and EZY. All fares were sourced from the respective companies' websites; and are exclusive of airport fees and taxes.
Results:
BA = £280 return
BD = £177
GO = £135
FR = £99.98
EZY =£229
It's very clear therefore that BA is indeed the most expensive airline on this route - and that surprisingly EZY is not far behind it. Considerably more reasonable are BD, GO and FR.
Well, BA tried that. Remember Go?
A full service airline is completely different from a low cost one - it's like trying to compare apples with potatoes. BA's overhead per aircraft is something like fifteen times that of one of the low cost boys - and it's not all just 'suits'!
As for your claims that BA's full fares are cheaper than those on the low cost carriers, I've just done an exercise here, and have compared BA's full fare economy fares LON-GLA peak flights departing 12 Sep returning 13 Sep with the unrestricted return fares of GO, BD, FR and EZY. All fares were sourced from the respective companies' websites; and are exclusive of airport fees and taxes.
Results:
BA = £280 return
BD = £177
GO = £135
FR = £99.98
EZY =£229
It's very clear therefore that BA is indeed the most expensive airline on this route - and that surprisingly EZY is not far behind it. Considerably more reasonable are BD, GO and FR.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the cheapest fare, Ryanair, don't actually fly to Glasgow but to Prestwick which is around forty miles away.
If you add the cost of transfer to the city, inconvenience, extra time taken (especially if you're a suit) it does'nt bring the price upto a full service fare but it does bring it more into line.
If you add the cost of transfer to the city, inconvenience, extra time taken (especially if you're a suit) it does'nt bring the price upto a full service fare but it does bring it more into line.
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SuperStall - you can go by bus from PIK to anywhere in Glasgow for 50p; or alternatively anywhere in Scotland by rail for 50% off (free if it's in the first year of a new route). Journey time by rail from PIK to Glasgow Central is around 45 minutes and fare is £2.50.
That's a lot cheaper - and not a whole lot slower - than coming in from Abbostinch (which isn't exactly a city centre airport!)
So, even factoring in the time - BA is still over £150 more expensive!!
BTW, the cheapest I've flown on FR PIK-STN was 50p and as I think I've said elsewhere more usually I've paid £4.50. Don't ever think I've seen BA fares like those!
That's a lot cheaper - and not a whole lot slower - than coming in from Abbostinch (which isn't exactly a city centre airport!)
So, even factoring in the time - BA is still over £150 more expensive!!
BTW, the cheapest I've flown on FR PIK-STN was 50p and as I think I've said elsewhere more usually I've paid £4.50. Don't ever think I've seen BA fares like those!
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Why fly to an airport 20-40 miles outside London? Scotairways fly direct into London city from Glasgow. The prices are ok too.
Perhaps you enjoy train/bus travel in the south east?
Perhaps you enjoy train/bus travel in the south east?
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I think Largejet hit the nail on the head. BA has to stop showing adverts of gravity defying coffee and start getting more aggressive with their marketing. They need to take the fight to low cost airlines. Start pointing out what is available to pax with BA. Give customers examples. Also they shouldn't take s**t form these cocky airlines who rub their noses in it at any opportunity. If BA does go down the pan I hope it isn't because it runs gentlemanly marketing campaigns.
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A thought from Dunnunda to all BA staff:- For evidence of what Mr. Ed is up to, have a look at what he left behind in Oz in the form of Ansett Holdings. We are in awful strife, with no obvious assistance from anywhere, 15,000 jobs on the line and even the Federal Government doesn't want to know!
That is not to say that ALL AN's problems are of his making but, by God, he has responsibility to some degree. Take care!
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
That is not to say that ALL AN's problems are of his making but, by God, he has responsibility to some degree. Take care!
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but Ryannair also don't fly out of LHR or LGW but somewhere a little further out from The City of London.
You are correct Guvnor that BA did try with GO what a great job they did! My point was meant to be that if that is what the customer wants then someone is barking up the wrong tree by offering a product that people don't want.
You are correct Guvnor that BA did try with GO what a great job they did! My point was meant to be that if that is what the customer wants then someone is barking up the wrong tree by offering a product that people don't want.
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Large Jet - bear in mind that not all people have the same wants and desires - it would be a pretty boring world if so!
The low cost carriers, as proven by Southwest, will be used by the budget conscious traveller at all times; and by cash strapped business travellers during downturns. When the good times are here, though, those business travellers and the leisure travellers who have a spare bit of cash who want the prestige or simply comfort level of travelling with a full service carrier will do so.
Remember, this is the first serious economic downturn where we have had the low cost carriers around - following the WN model - and it will be interesting to see if what happens in the States happens here. I'm pretty confident - at least in the case of FR - that they will remain profitable. EZY I'm not so sure about: as you say they expanded very rapidly indeed but they are owned by a family with very deep pockets so as long as they remain committed they should be ok.
At the same time, BA and BD have never been faced with this sort of competition during a downturn: previously passengers really had no choice other than to fly with them or their offshoots and franchisees.
Go, at least in financial terms, was a bit of a disaster for BA - it made pretty substantial losses, though I believe that the sale price may well have recovered those. Go is not really a true 'low cost' carrier - it provides too many frills (which add cost) and I suspect that it may well end up making the same mistakes as Debonair.
Add to this the fact that both BA and BD as full service carriers use their short-haul services to feed into their long haul network - often on common rated fares meaning that the passenger is effectively flying shorthaul at nil additional cost - and you'll see that they are between a rock and a hard place on this one.
The low cost carriers, as proven by Southwest, will be used by the budget conscious traveller at all times; and by cash strapped business travellers during downturns. When the good times are here, though, those business travellers and the leisure travellers who have a spare bit of cash who want the prestige or simply comfort level of travelling with a full service carrier will do so.
Remember, this is the first serious economic downturn where we have had the low cost carriers around - following the WN model - and it will be interesting to see if what happens in the States happens here. I'm pretty confident - at least in the case of FR - that they will remain profitable. EZY I'm not so sure about: as you say they expanded very rapidly indeed but they are owned by a family with very deep pockets so as long as they remain committed they should be ok.
At the same time, BA and BD have never been faced with this sort of competition during a downturn: previously passengers really had no choice other than to fly with them or their offshoots and franchisees.
Go, at least in financial terms, was a bit of a disaster for BA - it made pretty substantial losses, though I believe that the sale price may well have recovered those. Go is not really a true 'low cost' carrier - it provides too many frills (which add cost) and I suspect that it may well end up making the same mistakes as Debonair.
Add to this the fact that both BA and BD as full service carriers use their short-haul services to feed into their long haul network - often on common rated fares meaning that the passenger is effectively flying shorthaul at nil additional cost - and you'll see that they are between a rock and a hard place on this one.
More old carp from the worlds virtual airline!, Its well known that the earlier you book with easy go ryan etc the less you pay!. The more flexible you are and earlier you book the less you pay, they even advertise that! So why is it surprising that easy are second most expensive?, all you are getting is what it say's on the tin!
Still I guess thats what real airlines like BA, easy, go, ryan, swissair, buzz, united, etc, etc, do, they take real people, paying real money, from real airports to other real airports. And you can buy tickets on them before April 2002, or 2003 or whenever!
Still I guess thats what real airlines like BA, easy, go, ryan, swissair, buzz, united, etc, etc, do, they take real people, paying real money, from real airports to other real airports. And you can buy tickets on them before April 2002, or 2003 or whenever!
Usual disclaimers apply!
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Couldn't be bothered to read the rest of the posts, but the classics will be gone by the year end (Dec). They are starting to show their age and as they are worked hard it's difficult to keep the add levels under control.
One 'suit' thats going.... the Engineering director Colin Mathews resigned last week. He's off to ruin.. er!! I mean work for Transco. The gas supply co.
Come to think of it I think I've only ever seen him once in the five years he's been at B.A.
One 'suit' thats going.... the Engineering director Colin Mathews resigned last week. He's off to ruin.. er!! I mean work for Transco. The gas supply co.
Come to think of it I think I've only ever seen him once in the five years he's been at B.A.
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Speed check - close. Actually, according to this article from today's Sunday Times it's another 8,000 over three years, with another 2,000 next year:
BA plans to axe 8,000 more jobs
David Parsley
BRITISH AIRWAYS is planning up to 8,000 job cuts over the next three years on top of the 1,800 announced last Tuesday. Rod Eddington, the airline's chief executive, is understood to be considering 10% to 15% cuts in the group's 58,000 staff in an effort to slash costs.
While BA would not comment on the move, one senior source said: "We will be making further job cuts after the 1,800 are complete at the end of our financial year on March 31, 2002. We have told the unions that further job cuts will be substantial. Substantial means at least 2,000 next year."
The cuts are expected to continue after 2002 as BA seeks to implement its strategy of concentrating on first and business-class passengers while cutting economy seats.
The decision to cut 1,800 jobs last week was understood to have been made in the past two weeks. One BA source said: "I was away for two weeks and there was no such plan. Then the slowdown in the world airline market became even more clear and the decision was taken to tell union people that we were cutting the jobs."
George Stinnes, BA's head of investor relations, also made it clear more job cuts were on the way. He said: "We are cutting 25% of our capacity and so far we've only cut 3% of the staff. I'm not saying the job cuts will be 25% to match the capacity reduction but 3% doesn't seem much, does it?"
Analysts such as Chris Tarry at Commerzbank and Chris Avery at JP Morgan agree further cuts are likely.
Tarry said: "It is clear that the market has turned down more quickly that anyone could have reasonably predicted at the beginning of the year. But the regrouping strategy is exactly the correct path to follow."
Avery said: "BA recovered first after the last downturn and will this time as well. Its strategy is right and that may mean job cuts. But it is the right strategy for the long term."
David Parsley
BRITISH AIRWAYS is planning up to 8,000 job cuts over the next three years on top of the 1,800 announced last Tuesday. Rod Eddington, the airline's chief executive, is understood to be considering 10% to 15% cuts in the group's 58,000 staff in an effort to slash costs.
While BA would not comment on the move, one senior source said: "We will be making further job cuts after the 1,800 are complete at the end of our financial year on March 31, 2002. We have told the unions that further job cuts will be substantial. Substantial means at least 2,000 next year."
The cuts are expected to continue after 2002 as BA seeks to implement its strategy of concentrating on first and business-class passengers while cutting economy seats.
The decision to cut 1,800 jobs last week was understood to have been made in the past two weeks. One BA source said: "I was away for two weeks and there was no such plan. Then the slowdown in the world airline market became even more clear and the decision was taken to tell union people that we were cutting the jobs."
George Stinnes, BA's head of investor relations, also made it clear more job cuts were on the way. He said: "We are cutting 25% of our capacity and so far we've only cut 3% of the staff. I'm not saying the job cuts will be 25% to match the capacity reduction but 3% doesn't seem much, does it?"
Analysts such as Chris Tarry at Commerzbank and Chris Avery at JP Morgan agree further cuts are likely.
Tarry said: "It is clear that the market has turned down more quickly that anyone could have reasonably predicted at the beginning of the year. But the regrouping strategy is exactly the correct path to follow."
Avery said: "BA recovered first after the last downturn and will this time as well. Its strategy is right and that may mean job cuts. But it is the right strategy for the long term."
