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Garuda pilot's conviction overturned

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Garuda pilot's conviction overturned

Old 14th Dec 2009, 20:49
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Never Fly Garuda



I DONT CARE HOW CHEAP THEY ARE YOU WILL NEVER GET ME ON ONE OF THIER PLANES!!!!!!

GARUDA NOW NUMBER #1 NOT TO FLY!
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 20:53
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In a case such as this the licensing authority would probably cancel the licence pending re-train and re-check.
Uh uh. At the least, barred for life. Permanent licence revocation.
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 23:49
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21 people lost their lives because the pilot had never been trained in the correct recovery procedure for being too hot/high on the approach.The procedure is either a)GO AROUND or b)trade profile for speed.
(a) is seen as defeatist in some cultures and (b) requires training outside normal SOP's(ie approach from below GP,gear down and flaps at 1 dot etc).I have it on authority that another Indonesian airline that is now deceased transferred a bunch of 737-200 rated guys onto the "classic" without ever doing a rating,and that they flouted every maintenance rule in the book from day 1.In such an environment,do you not think that it would be better to go after the "big guns" (ie the Indonesian CAA).After all,they allow and oversee the mess that is Indonesian aviation.Dont go after the little guys.
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Old 15th Dec 2009, 02:12
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The EU JAA/EASA has recently allowed Garuda back into the EU. How do you guys feel now re the state of Indonesian aviation and law??

The only way to sort them out is to refuse to allow them to operate any international flights until such time that it really hurts - in the pocket. And don't give me the bit that Garuda are the best of them and that thy're doing their best. "Their best" in Indonesia is just nopt good enough. Sick.
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Old 15th Dec 2009, 10:26
  #25 (permalink)  
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the pilot had never been trained in the correct recovery procedure for being too hot/high on the approach.
You surely have some evidence to support this? It isn't special training specific to the B737 or jets in general, it is usually taught in the PA28, Cessna 152 etc. and carried forward to type. A captain of a commercial B737 with a few thousand hours shouldn't need any special training to enable him to recognise when he is twice as fast and much higher than he should be and nineteen aural warnings have blared at him as well as his F/O, he never established a stabilised approach, only one cure, GO AROUND.
He has lost far more face by being positively identified as an incompetent pilot who killed some passengers than one that did a G/A.
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Old 15th Dec 2009, 19:40
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You surely have some evidence to support this?

Well,no.I am assuming the culture of "never lose face" dissuaded him from the GA option and the fact that he never got the speed under control(and hence couldnt get the flaps out) means he didnt know that foregoing the profile initially was his only other option.If he'd known,presumably he would have done something about it.My guess is that the AP took him down the slope with speed increasing and he sat there and watched it ,unsure of what to do about it.Situation can be recovered with or w/o automatics but it must be done quickly.Whilst I agree it was reckless endangerment and he should never fly again,I would say the latent causes of the crash are to be found in the Indonesian civil aviation system as a whole.
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Old 16th Dec 2009, 11:57
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don't fly with garuda.

just don't fly with garuda.. i'm not gonna put my life in their hands.
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Old 8th Jan 2010, 19:47
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Indonesia is often referred to as 'The most corrupt country in the world'.
Considering the long list of other corrupt countries in the world, that is really saying somthing.

So why would it be a surprise a court ruling such as this is later overturned.
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Old 8th Jan 2010, 21:31
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>>just don't fly with garuda.. i'm not gonna put my life in their hands.
Good Airline.. Run Under Dutch Administration.
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Old 8th Jan 2010, 21:45
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Originally Posted by Rananim
21 people lost their lives because the pilot had never been trained in the correct recovery procedure for being too hot/high on the approach.
What kind of training program turns people into "airline pilots" without ever covering this absolutely fundamental aspect of flying? What kind of national regulatory authority allows people to become airline pilots without this type of training?
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Old 8th Jan 2010, 22:35
  #31 (permalink)  

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The word "Authority" is used loosely in many parts of the world. Indonesia is a most liberal country in regulatory matters, as has been proven with the extensive bans for Garuda and other carriers in more "demanding" states.

Nice people though, by and large.
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Old 9th Jan 2010, 17:06
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I doubt he will find employment anywhere even in Indonesia. What he did on that approach was outrageous.
I don't believe he should have been jailed for life or any pilot for that matter, but I trust if he turns up in a cockpit in Indonesia in the near future that the whistle blowers will announce this to the world!
The only thing that he should be driving is his only personal motorbike with no passengers!
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Old 10th Jan 2010, 02:15
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Thumbs down

Remember the facts. He ignored 16 GPWS warnings. He ignored 5 calls from the FO to go around. He touched down with Flap 5 at about 210 kts. This has nothing to do with training. The guy shouldn't be in an aeroplane - period. Jail is too good for him.
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Old 10th Jan 2010, 02:27
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I don't know how true this is but the scuttlebutt in Indo was Garuda pilots at that time had a bonus for saving fuel each month which was a substantial kicker to their salaries which could have caused the 'get-in-itis' of the captain.

No excuse but it could have been a factor in this illogical chain of events leading to the accident.
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Old 11th Jan 2010, 13:38
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aseanaero,

it was not true
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Old 11th Jan 2010, 14:43
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Thanks for cleariing that up Arba
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Old 12th Jan 2010, 02:43
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Sources of the fuel bonus rumor

The pilots' association for Indonesia's Garuda Airlines says a bonus scheme for saving fuel could be encouraging pilots to attempt dangerous landings.
Twenty-one people, including five Australians, were killed last month when a Garuda plane crashed at Yogyakarta airport.
Indonesia's National Safety Transport Committee has officially released a summary of its preliminary findings into the crash, confirming that Garuda Flight 200 was travelling at around 410 kph - almost twice the normal speed - when it came in to land.
Garuda Pilots' Association president Captain Stephanus Geraldus says the pilot could gave been trying to save fuel by continuing with the landing rather than making another attempt.
"Maybe the captain wanted to save the fuel - this could be investigated," he said.
He says a new bonus scheme at Garuda rewards individual pilots for conserving fuel.
Meanwhile the man leading the investigation into the crash says a longer runway safety area at Yogyakarta airport may have reduced the impact.
The crash-landing of Garuda Flight 200 may not have been preventable, but the impact could have been "less severe" if international recommendations for safety areas at the end of runways were followed, Indonesia's National Safety Transport Committee's chief investigator Marjono Siswosuwarno said.
"The accident could not be prevented but the result can be less severe," he said.
The access roads for emergency vehicles at Yogyakarta's airport were also criticised by the committee in its preliminary report on the crash investigation.
Fences had prevented fire trucks from reaching the burning plane, which crashed across a road at the end of the runway.
Garuda crash pilot may have been trying to save fuel - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

A GARUDA jet continued its ill-fated landing despite "running wild" and becoming uncontrollable early in its approach to Yogyakarta Airport's in March last year, its captain, Marwoto Komar, confessed under police interrogation.
Komar's trial for criminal negligence over the deaths of 21 people in the crash, including five Australians, begins today. He has never spoken publicly about the Boeing 737's descent, but his police interrogation report, which is central to the case, has been obtained by Herald.
Under questioning, Komar said there had been arguments with his co-pilot during the landing. He admitted the plane touched down at an unsafe speed.
He said he was concerned about conserving fuel - one of the possible reasons advanced as to why 15 automated alarms telling the pilot to "go-around", were ignored.
Asked by police why he did not land visually after experiencing problems with an instrument landing, Komar said he did not tell his co-pilot he was continuing to use the instrument landing system "because at that time I was the only one in control of the plane that was already running wild".
"The plane nose was always going down and it was difficult for me to bring the plane nose up ... [one of] the reasons for that was the malfunction of the plane's stabiliser which is located at the tail of the plane. However, I could not be sure of the reason," he said.
"So it can be said that the plane's performance ... was not stable," Komar said.
He described unsuccessful attempts to bring under control a plane that was descending too quickly. He admitted he never achieved a safe speed.
"It was impossible for me to go around because it was difficult to lift up the plane's nose, so my last attempt was trying to put the plane on a glide path, reasoning the plane would not touch the soil that was ahead of the runway. In other words my only hope was to reach for the runway."
On landing, the plane was travelling at 150 knots (270kmh), he said. "I do know the possibility of the risks but at least at that time I thought that my attempts carried the least risk."
Police have called for Komar to be jailed for life for the crash. His is the first criminal prosecution of an Indonesian pilot.
Air safety investigators determined the plane landed at nearly double the safe speed, bouncing off the runway, through the airport fence and across an embankment. Its wing was severed and the plane caught alight with many passengers trapped inside.
The airport's safety run-off did not meet international safety standards and its fire-fighting equipment and practices were heavily criticised by investigators.
Komar said he compromised with his co-pilot, Gagam Rahman, on the level of flaps the plane was using on descent because "by using a flap of 30 degrees the usage of fuel was relatively not much". Garuda had introduced large bonuses for conserving fuel shortly before last year's accident.
Komar faces charges of negligence causing injury and death and flying an aircraft which endangered the safety of people on the plane.
Garuda pilot tells of wild death ride - World - smh.com.au
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Old 12th Jan 2010, 04:28
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We try to save fuel in everyday flying won't we? direct routing, low drag approach, single engine taxi, delay APU start, etc.

I don't know how you come up with this :

Garuda pilots at that time had a bonus for saving fuel each month which was a substantial kicker to their salaries
only this that I want to clear up.
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Old 12th Jan 2010, 04:36
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The pilots' association for Indonesia's Garuda Airlines says a bonus scheme for saving fuel could be encouraging pilots to attempt dangerous landings.
I didn't come up with it.
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Old 12th Jan 2010, 04:44
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yea right , the trusty ABC !
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