Aer Lingus to Leave Dublin Forever.
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Very simple solution to solve this problem.
With such salaries why don't these guys buy the Airline via a LBO.
When on the management dance floor, let them figure about the way to keep their toy flying.....
When your are a simple employee all the personal efforts you will do will be of usefull need for some financials slave traders.
Employees are modern slaves and also customers.
Financials are the slave traders and owners of the food shops;
Let's take powership on our own destiny if courageous enough......
Your dedicated World Nation's President
With such salaries why don't these guys buy the Airline via a LBO.
When on the management dance floor, let them figure about the way to keep their toy flying.....
When your are a simple employee all the personal efforts you will do will be of usefull need for some financials slave traders.
Employees are modern slaves and also customers.
Financials are the slave traders and owners of the food shops;
Let's take powership on our own destiny if courageous enough......
Your dedicated World Nation's President
Thread Starter
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The Dilettante Dwarf.
With such salaries why don't these guys buy the Airline via a LBO.
In this unhappy case, though, your otherwise faultless logic fails to take into consideration the endlessly amusing antics of IALPA.
May I draw your attention to Tailwind Nominees. A furious and heroic venture borne in the breast of defiance, only to be dashed on the rocks of the stock market. You'll have heard about margin lending, I assume?
Tailwind Nominees had heard about it too, but only partly.
The moral of our story, girls and boys? Leveraged negative equity is a real bitch.
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Oh the fools Leo, thinking you were the devil himself
. You really don't know where to get off do you?.
I hear you're a Celine DION fan, and a former man of the cloth...Not!
. You really don't know where to get off do you?.I hear you're a Celine DION fan, and a former man of the cloth...Not!
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Leo,
Hypothetically speaking of course, if AL was your trainset - what would you be doing with it now to get it back in shape?
How do you see this playing out?
Hypothetically speaking of course, if AL was your trainset - what would you be doing with it now to get it back in shape?
How do you see this playing out?
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How about this
FR gets hold of ALingus. Get the UK AOC.
Short haul reduced
Keep the LHR slots for now. New big deal over at Gatwick perhaps. Maybe even added as an FR base to help 'feed' traffic?
Budget economy seats down the back and Business up front.
Pit Boeing against Airbus for an order of say 50-100 A330's/ 777's
New contracts for all Staff etc..pay your own TR's etc...
All service supply contracts renegotiated
Reduce EIDW long haul until the airport relents on charges there too.
Not so fancy hotels and perks for long haul staff.
Keep the good bits of AL's infrastructure.
For sure... good for some, not so good for others, but at the end of the day, return on wonga is what matters. However much we enjoy flying, planes, whatever, its got earn its keep.
My own view is that the Irish government as the holders of a block of the shares has a duty to the tax payers best interests. Its the tax payer that owns these shares. They should have taken the FR offer and left them with the problem. One way or the other the tax payer is going to end up with not much for its considerable investment. Governments have no business running airlines for the sake of votes or pride.
...ok... I crawl back to my cage.
Short haul reduced
Keep the LHR slots for now. New big deal over at Gatwick perhaps. Maybe even added as an FR base to help 'feed' traffic?
Budget economy seats down the back and Business up front.
Pit Boeing against Airbus for an order of say 50-100 A330's/ 777's
New contracts for all Staff etc..pay your own TR's etc...
All service supply contracts renegotiated
Reduce EIDW long haul until the airport relents on charges there too.
Not so fancy hotels and perks for long haul staff.
Keep the good bits of AL's infrastructure.
For sure... good for some, not so good for others, but at the end of the day, return on wonga is what matters. However much we enjoy flying, planes, whatever, its got earn its keep.
My own view is that the Irish government as the holders of a block of the shares has a duty to the tax payers best interests. Its the tax payer that owns these shares. They should have taken the FR offer and left them with the problem. One way or the other the tax payer is going to end up with not much for its considerable investment. Governments have no business running airlines for the sake of votes or pride.
...ok... I crawl back to my cage.
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blackred, nah, Leo wouldn't put me on the bus.......he's not evil you know.
Skyloone,
Short haul reduced...........integrated into existing operation. No more main airports etc.
Keep the LHR slots for now..........Sell them. Too expensive to operate to LHR.
New big deal over at Gatwick perhaps. Maybe even added as an FR base to help 'feed' traffic?.......Good plan. Make Easy's eyes water.
Budget economy seats down the back and Business up front. No chance. Only on long haul.
Pit Boeing against Airbus for an order of say 50-100 A330's/ 777's Nope. Show Airbus and Leahy what happens when you dump a whole bunch of their jets on the secondhand market.
New contracts for all Staff etc..pay your own TR's etc... Like bmi?
All service supply contracts renegotiated Use existing FR contracts cancel others.
Reduce EIDW long haul until the airport relents on charges there too. Agreed
Not so fancy hotels and perks for long haul staff. Tents mate.
Keep the good bits of AL's infrastructure. This is the point that I realised you must be on something.
What good bits?
Skyloone,
Short haul reduced...........integrated into existing operation. No more main airports etc.
Keep the LHR slots for now..........Sell them. Too expensive to operate to LHR.
New big deal over at Gatwick perhaps. Maybe even added as an FR base to help 'feed' traffic?.......Good plan. Make Easy's eyes water.
Budget economy seats down the back and Business up front. No chance. Only on long haul.
Pit Boeing against Airbus for an order of say 50-100 A330's/ 777's Nope. Show Airbus and Leahy what happens when you dump a whole bunch of their jets on the secondhand market.
New contracts for all Staff etc..pay your own TR's etc... Like bmi?
All service supply contracts renegotiated Use existing FR contracts cancel others.
Reduce EIDW long haul until the airport relents on charges there too. Agreed
Not so fancy hotels and perks for long haul staff. Tents mate.
Keep the good bits of AL's infrastructure. This is the point that I realised you must be on something.
What good bits?
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No surprise really. The Airline is full of deluded muppets .Like all the public sector workers who went on strike in Ireland yesterday the employees are living on another planet,and its their delusion thats going to bring the airline down.
Most of the pilots in there are there since they were 19 or 20 , the havent a clue what its like in the real world.
There has always been the rot of state run wastefulness in there and even though its privately owned its still there.
Id hate to see it go but its going to happen.
Lads remember , bring your uniform and a few tea bags with you when it goes tits up cause Ryanair charge you for them, dont bother with the peaked cap
Most of the pilots in there are there since they were 19 or 20 , the havent a clue what its like in the real world.
There has always been the rot of state run wastefulness in there and even though its privately owned its still there.
Id hate to see it go but its going to happen.
Lads remember , bring your uniform and a few tea bags with you when it goes tits up cause Ryanair charge you for them, dont bother with the peaked cap
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Aer Lingus
Its a lot more complex than national pride and also the Aer Lingus brand would still have a lot of value for the Irish market and possibly further afield.
I also wouldn't agree with the anti-englishness as a semi-government policy and it's only a minority like yourself who would think like that in a corporate context - e.g. Eircom had many foreign owners
I also wouldn't agree with the anti-englishness as a semi-government policy and it's only a minority like yourself who would think like that in a corporate context - e.g. Eircom had many foreign owners
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Quote:
Very convincing credentials indeed....
From the same journalists: Ryanair Flight Makes Emergency Landing | Self-Catering-Breaks News
Dear god - in no way, shape or form could you call that article journalism - my 7 year-old has a better grasp of English.
Very convincing credentials indeed....
From the same journalists: Ryanair Flight Makes Emergency Landing | Self-Catering-Breaks News
Dear god - in no way, shape or form could you call that article journalism - my 7 year-old has a better grasp of English.
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the Aer Lingus brand would still have a lot of value for the Irish market
Aer Lingus has a LoCo revenue structure allied to a legacy carrier cost base. It is operating in the worst performing economy in Europe, not expected to return to economic growth until 2011. It has two significant shareholders that no airline that might wish to acquire it would want to see on their own share register, namely the Irish government and Ryanair. Consequently, any acquisition impliclity requires these 55% of shares to be taken out for cash. In the curernt environment, nobody will be interested in doing that.
Aer Lingus has no strategic value to anyone. It ought to be put out of its misery. That would allow others to cherry pick assets, such as: LHR slots; Irish (ie EU) operating entity allowing development of an intra-EU network (possibly attractive to a non-EU domiciled airline). If this happened via an administration, current staff T&Cs could be ripped up and more realistic terms imposed. Much easier than negotiating with the Trogs that are the Irish TUs (think of Alitalia for a comparison).
I disagree with the notion expressed by others that, as usual, the Irish government will somehow bail out Aer Lingus. There really is no money left here. The State's credit rating has been cut twice already this year. There is EU pressure to rein in the deficit. I somehow doubt there will be much voter support for bailing out Aer Lingus at the same time as slashing things like child benefit (being widely trailed as a budget measure here).
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I had a dream.
Leo
There is a big difference between unionized and unified.
Imagine the very next future.
People realize they have to save our common cheese cake: The Earth.
This generation is thinking ahead and as a sacrificed one is trying to preserve the future of the next to come: their child's one.
Imagine a virtual economic model at the beginning.
Some people from every nations of the World decide to build their own virtual country.
They create their own bank, own shops, buy their Companies and more and more join the system.
In a few years the majority of the Earth citizens join the "World Nation".
The World bank become the only one and garanties all the salaries and pensions as well, as money does not mean anything anymore.
One common goal. Leave a clean place for next generations.
Only one problem, Earth demography has to be controlled.
The actual system is based on growing and is condamned by the simple fact Earth cannot stand more human beings and that's the reason why the entire actual economic system will fail.
Economic rules have been made complicated just because we have different money and because of the competitions between nations.
What Micky's job could be in this future?
Star in a oneman show could be.
If Employees start to buy their own business and unify under a Worldwide organisation completely independant of the Nations then byebye golden parachuts for the actual financials and managers....
Don't treat people as stupid job seekers.
One day the fall will be hard for the ones who don't understand the value of human being against the one of money.
Just because time as come to save our mother Earth for the future of our childs.
Your dedicated World Nation President
Leo
There is a big difference between unionized and unified.
Imagine the very next future.
People realize they have to save our common cheese cake: The Earth.
This generation is thinking ahead and as a sacrificed one is trying to preserve the future of the next to come: their child's one.
Imagine a virtual economic model at the beginning.
Some people from every nations of the World decide to build their own virtual country.
They create their own bank, own shops, buy their Companies and more and more join the system.
In a few years the majority of the Earth citizens join the "World Nation".
The World bank become the only one and garanties all the salaries and pensions as well, as money does not mean anything anymore.
One common goal. Leave a clean place for next generations.
Only one problem, Earth demography has to be controlled.
The actual system is based on growing and is condamned by the simple fact Earth cannot stand more human beings and that's the reason why the entire actual economic system will fail.
Economic rules have been made complicated just because we have different money and because of the competitions between nations.
What Micky's job could be in this future?
Star in a oneman show could be.
If Employees start to buy their own business and unify under a Worldwide organisation completely independant of the Nations then byebye golden parachuts for the actual financials and managers....
Don't treat people as stupid job seekers.
One day the fall will be hard for the ones who don't understand the value of human being against the one of money.
Just because time as come to save our mother Earth for the future of our childs.
Your dedicated World Nation President
Last edited by australiancalou; 26th Nov 2009 at 14:57.
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@ Righteous Pilot
" The Aer Lingus brand would still have a lot of worth in the Irish market..."
....and how much is that worth a year in profit terms ?
"...and possibly further afield ..."
Possibly, maybe , err, err ????
Another Celtic Tiger that turns out to be a kitten with cat-flu.
" The Aer Lingus brand would still have a lot of worth in the Irish market..."
....and how much is that worth a year in profit terms ?
"...and possibly further afield ..."
Possibly, maybe , err, err ????
Another Celtic Tiger that turns out to be a kitten with cat-flu.
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who earn up to $500,000 per year and benefit from incredible pension plans as well. At Ryanair by comparison, the pilots earn half as much.
You also claim:
Ryanair pilots, who earn an average of €150,000 a year
Or perhaps you're compulsively lying? I suppose a ryanair pilot on $250k is a better piece of propaganda that the facts that fr pilots are the worst paid in Europe.
Slim:
Remind me again why you really don't like your colleagues in green.
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With the right management Aer Lingus can work.
Its been around for how many years?
Look at its extensive network - Heathrow, New York, Boston, Munich, Paris, Rome etc...
It has solid roots, efficient aircraft,little debt.
All this spin about crazy salaries, they are in line with the likes of Lufty, KLM etc..
If everyone decides to fly into third world airstrips miles from any main city who exactly will serve the quality established routes and airports?
I see the need for Locos but we still need the quality carriers.
Its been around for how many years?
Look at its extensive network - Heathrow, New York, Boston, Munich, Paris, Rome etc...
It has solid roots, efficient aircraft,little debt.
All this spin about crazy salaries, they are in line with the likes of Lufty, KLM etc..
If everyone decides to fly into third world airstrips miles from any main city who exactly will serve the quality established routes and airports?
I see the need for Locos but we still need the quality carriers.
Thread Starter
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I see the need for Locos but we still need the quality carriers.
Curiously enough, April next year, five months from now, is when the Court of First Instance is due to make two rulings. Firstly, whether or not AERL may compel its largest shareholder to divest its 30% holding, and second, whether or not its largest shareholder will be permitted to acquire a controlling interest. My prediction? No, and yes. In that order.
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If you've seen Dublin Airport recently, you will easily tell who the big player there is. From my memory of going there this Summer, 7/10 aircraft at least were Ryanair on a busy Summer day. I saw some long-haul A330's on the round concourse, but at most 1 or 2/10 aircraft in the airport were Aer Lingus. This is reinforced by the fact that Ryanair has had their own dedicated councourse opened (Pier D if my memory serves me well). Although Aer Lingus is the Irish national airline, and Dublin is the Irish national carrier, there is no need for them to be based there, indeed it looks like they're already on their way out.
I do, however believe that they should be based in Ireland if they are to be a true Irish carrier, or rebrand if they move to the UK. I would argue that they are the last true Irish carrier. Ryanair has become British as much as Irish, and if anything I would now argue they are a European carrier more than anything. CityJet is a subsidiary of Air France, and Aer Aerann is too minor a carrier to fill the gap.
I remember reading an article in Flight International some time around April this year and did a report picking out Aer Lingus specifically for "weathering the storm" in relation to the economic climate. Obviously things have taken a turn for the worst and they will have to drop their luxurious wages. Seeing as they are now trying to compete with the low-cost market, maybe they should start acting more like a low cost airline and at least adjust their salaries and business plan accordingly. This is even if it means dropping the salaries a long haul national carrier pilot would expect - I'm sure there are many more willing and capable of filling the slots.
(1st post so I thought I'd introduce myself - Hi I'm Alex)
I do, however believe that they should be based in Ireland if they are to be a true Irish carrier, or rebrand if they move to the UK. I would argue that they are the last true Irish carrier. Ryanair has become British as much as Irish, and if anything I would now argue they are a European carrier more than anything. CityJet is a subsidiary of Air France, and Aer Aerann is too minor a carrier to fill the gap.
I remember reading an article in Flight International some time around April this year and did a report picking out Aer Lingus specifically for "weathering the storm" in relation to the economic climate. Obviously things have taken a turn for the worst and they will have to drop their luxurious wages. Seeing as they are now trying to compete with the low-cost market, maybe they should start acting more like a low cost airline and at least adjust their salaries and business plan accordingly. This is even if it means dropping the salaries a long haul national carrier pilot would expect - I'm sure there are many more willing and capable of filling the slots.
(1st post so I thought I'd introduce myself - Hi I'm Alex)
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Good evening Alex,
Oh, the courage of yoof! Your obs on the recent state of play at DUB help paint the picture, but be careful - here be dragons, tigers, cheaters, backstabbers, trolls, but alas for you young man, no Cougars.
We can play rough here, so join in at your peril. BTW have you any ambitions pilot wise?
Sir George Cayley
Oh, the courage of yoof! Your obs on the recent state of play at DUB help paint the picture, but be careful - here be dragons, tigers, cheaters, backstabbers, trolls, but alas for you young man, no Cougars.
We can play rough here, so join in at your peril. BTW have you any ambitions pilot wise?
Sir George Cayley