Soviet downing of KAL 007 in 1978!
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On Delco Carousel IV warning is only given when initializing the unit and only when there is a large (Might have been 1 or 2nm) difference in the position where unit was last turned off and started again.
If the airplane was turned off on the west side of LAX and then towed to Eastside and started again there would be a red warning lamp on. This is easy to get rid of though either by resetting the unit or shutting it down and then starting it again.
There is absolutely no warning should pilot make a typo while entering the lat-longs. Additionally this unit only takes 9 waypoints at any given time while 0 is present position on initialization.
So on a flight where you have 100 waypoints you will re-enter waypoints more than you would like to and during long nights I can tell you that it takes 2 to tango. One reads and other enters while entry is X-checked.
JJ
If the airplane was turned off on the west side of LAX and then towed to Eastside and started again there would be a red warning lamp on. This is easy to get rid of though either by resetting the unit or shutting it down and then starting it again.
There is absolutely no warning should pilot make a typo while entering the lat-longs. Additionally this unit only takes 9 waypoints at any given time while 0 is present position on initialization.
So on a flight where you have 100 waypoints you will re-enter waypoints more than you would like to and during long nights I can tell you that it takes 2 to tango. One reads and other enters while entry is X-checked.
JJ
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Skydrifter, I do not believe there is a great mystery. On the Carousel INS, if you haven't switched the autopilot from Heading control to INS track control, then unless you carefully check at some stage, you will not realise that you may be diverging from intended track, and there will be no obvious warnings of your error. Abeam each waypoint, you will still switch over automatically to the next waypoint- you just will be maintaining the same magnetic heading constantly. True, the ETA's might tell you peculiar things, but it is not an obvious error. A tired crew, long night, easily done, and a poor crew would not notice.....Flight Time Limitations have their purpose!
Cunning Artificer
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Paterbrat,
I didn't realise that the Israelis had built a nuclear reactor in the Sinai desert in occupied Egyptian territory? As I recall they DID have a VOR located about 250 miles into Israeli occupied territory that happened to have the same frequency as another beacon near Cairo. So, with a ferocious tail wind and a dust storm over Cairo it is entirely possible that the airliner flew off course and ended up over an occupied part of Egypt. Hardly justification for murdering the occupants of a civil airliner though is it? Airliners use normal ATC frequencies that are shown in great detail on all the charts. I know the military use their own charts and frequencies but wouldn't it be a good idea to try an identity check on the likely ATC frequencies before opening fire on an airliner? Generally, B7x7s with combat capability only exist in the movies.
The USA had an Aegis missile cruiser(?) in the Gulf. It "mistook" an Iranian Airbus flying a regular (daily) scheduled flight on an airway at 33,000 feet for an Iranian Mig making an attack. They then shot it down without bothering to call on the airways frequency to do an identity check. Now those Aegis ships are supposed to be state of the art whizbang marvels of technology. They are designed to protect a Carrier group from air attack. If they can't differentiate between an A300 on a daily scheduled flight and a Military attack then God help us all!
There's just too much of this shoot'em up attitude. Maybe the military should be banned from watching excessively violent TV programmes?
**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
I didn't realise that the Israelis had built a nuclear reactor in the Sinai desert in occupied Egyptian territory? As I recall they DID have a VOR located about 250 miles into Israeli occupied territory that happened to have the same frequency as another beacon near Cairo. So, with a ferocious tail wind and a dust storm over Cairo it is entirely possible that the airliner flew off course and ended up over an occupied part of Egypt. Hardly justification for murdering the occupants of a civil airliner though is it? Airliners use normal ATC frequencies that are shown in great detail on all the charts. I know the military use their own charts and frequencies but wouldn't it be a good idea to try an identity check on the likely ATC frequencies before opening fire on an airliner? Generally, B7x7s with combat capability only exist in the movies.
The USA had an Aegis missile cruiser(?) in the Gulf. It "mistook" an Iranian Airbus flying a regular (daily) scheduled flight on an airway at 33,000 feet for an Iranian Mig making an attack. They then shot it down without bothering to call on the airways frequency to do an identity check. Now those Aegis ships are supposed to be state of the art whizbang marvels of technology. They are designed to protect a Carrier group from air attack. If they can't differentiate between an A300 on a daily scheduled flight and a Military attack then God help us all!
There's just too much of this shoot'em up attitude. Maybe the military should be banned from watching excessively violent TV programmes?
**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
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From the time of my initial posting on this subject in April 2001 until now, I've received a number of private replies, including one from the PanAm 727 rescue captain that flew to Leningrad-Murmansk-Helsinki to get the surviving passengers, the wounded and the two dead out of Russia.
Also, subsequently from my inital postings, the flight was KAL 902.
It is interesting how things come back to haunt you. This incident happened more than 20 years ago and I was on the ground as a foreign correspondent in Leningrad when the PA 727 came in to load up with first aid kits, water and the diplomats, Americans and Japanese, to do the negotiations, because at that time South Korea was not recognized by the USSR.
This very kind PA captain, now retired, gave me the whole story on the strange goings on during the flight to Murmansk with a Russian navigator (had to have one in those days) and I'm sure he didn't announce to Murmansk ATC that "Clipper 123 requests..." They wouldn't know what PanAm meant, much less what "Clipper" stood for.
Anyway, how the KAL aircraft ended up there in the north of Russia and why, is still not known. That they were forced down on a frozen lake is known. What happened to the B707 is not known, but as I posted before, with only a few bullet holes it could have been flown out again.
Also, subsequently from my inital postings, the flight was KAL 902.
It is interesting how things come back to haunt you. This incident happened more than 20 years ago and I was on the ground as a foreign correspondent in Leningrad when the PA 727 came in to load up with first aid kits, water and the diplomats, Americans and Japanese, to do the negotiations, because at that time South Korea was not recognized by the USSR.
This very kind PA captain, now retired, gave me the whole story on the strange goings on during the flight to Murmansk with a Russian navigator (had to have one in those days) and I'm sure he didn't announce to Murmansk ATC that "Clipper 123 requests..." They wouldn't know what PanAm meant, much less what "Clipper" stood for.
Anyway, how the KAL aircraft ended up there in the north of Russia and why, is still not known. That they were forced down on a frozen lake is known. What happened to the B707 is not known, but as I posted before, with only a few bullet holes it could have been flown out again.
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just a few observations re these shootdowns.
1. Airliner shootdowns are thankfully rare. How come KAL have managed to get involved twice?
2. Why didn't the RIVET JOINT a/c, ie RC-135 in the area warn the KAL007? they certainly could have.
3. In the west we rarely hear or read a mention of the Airbus that the Americans shot down over the gulf. just compare the amount of coverage on this subject with for instance the Lockerbie incident. Surely both are of similar importance if viewed objectively?
1. Airliner shootdowns are thankfully rare. How come KAL have managed to get involved twice?
2. Why didn't the RIVET JOINT a/c, ie RC-135 in the area warn the KAL007? they certainly could have.
3. In the west we rarely hear or read a mention of the Airbus that the Americans shot down over the gulf. just compare the amount of coverage on this subject with for instance the Lockerbie incident. Surely both are of similar importance if viewed objectively?
