United pilot arrested at LHR
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Presumably means quite a lot on his ability to fly.
Insurance co to airline
"Has any of your pilots ever been convicted of any offence affecting their ability to fly your aircraft ? "
" Well there was just this one time......'
Insurance co to airline
"Has any of your pilots ever been convicted of any offence affecting their ability to fly your aircraft ? "
" Well there was just this one time......'
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"miscalculation"
From the BBC BBC News - No jail for US pilot caught in plane over alcohol limit
The court was told the highly experienced pilot, a married father of three, was over the legal alcohol limit as a result of a "miscalculation".
I love the way the defence claim miscalculation - hope he doesn't make these kind of miscalculations with his fuel figures, his runway lengths, V speeds, his flare etc etc...
This was such a lame excuse and the judge should of really highlighted this point, beacuse a large part of a pilot's work is good calculations.
I'm also surprised he has not been sacked from UAL - however, I am a believer in helping people who stumble and second chances. But there is also a case for making an example of someone who breaks the rules??
The court was told the highly experienced pilot, a married father of three, was over the legal alcohol limit as a result of a "miscalculation".
I love the way the defence claim miscalculation - hope he doesn't make these kind of miscalculations with his fuel figures, his runway lengths, V speeds, his flare etc etc...
This was such a lame excuse and the judge should of really highlighted this point, beacuse a large part of a pilot's work is good calculations.
I'm also surprised he has not been sacked from UAL - however, I am a believer in helping people who stumble and second chances. But there is also a case for making an example of someone who breaks the rules??
jj,
In most decent companies a first offence of alcohol abuse is treated as an illness and the offender is given the opportunity to dry out but that's it. One more hiccup and you're history.
The court heard Washington has been placed on a evaluation programme by United Airlines and will not be able to fly for at least 12 months.
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junior jetset
When I read that I assumed you were an aviation enthusiast,not a pilot. A quick look at your previous posts confirmed it.
The judge has been on the bench for 15 years and, before that, was a barrister for about 20 years. Every man to his job?
I assume the judge realised that the type of calculations to which you refer are of a very different nature.
Sometimes yes, but only if there's a need to do so. eg When an offence is prevalent and there is a need to pass a deterrent sentence.
hope he doesn't make these kind of miscalculations with his fuel figures, his runway lengths, V speeds, his flare etc etc...
the judge should of really highlighted this point,
because a large part of a pilot's work is good calculations.
But there is also a case for making an example of someone who breaks the rules??
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Great post Flying Lawyer .. you said alot there didn't you..
just having a dig at me or showing off about your aviation and law background??
my point about calculations is valid
just having a dig at me or showing off about your aviation and law background??
my point about calculations is valid
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Knowing a well-known judge's curriculum vitae doesn't give somebody who knows how to use a search engine a "law background."
And no, your point about calculations is not the slightest bit valid, unless you imagine that a pilot calculates a bug speed by saying, "Well, I think it was about eight hours since I used it last, so it's probably still good."
By the way, will you please figure out how to spell Junior and correct your handle?
And no, your point about calculations is not the slightest bit valid, unless you imagine that a pilot calculates a bug speed by saying, "Well, I think it was about eight hours since I used it last, so it's probably still good."
By the way, will you please figure out how to spell Junior and correct your handle?
That's Life!!
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may well be that English is not the first language, therefore 'hearing' affects the use of 'have' and 'of' .
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sorry all for poor English, I'm French - no xenapohbia please!! tks Sailor vee - for your post
I still think my point about calculatuions is valid
It is a captain's business to know how to calculate things that are important to his activities and that includes his alcohol limit
People who can't govern themselves need governing, and the UK justice system is semi-*doing that for this chap.
and by the way Juniour was intentional as junior was not avaliable at the time!
go chill out all you pompous folk!
I still think my point about calculatuions is valid
It is a captain's business to know how to calculate things that are important to his activities and that includes his alcohol limit
People who can't govern themselves need governing, and the UK justice system is semi-*doing that for this chap.
and by the way Juniour was intentional as junior was not avaliable at the time!
go chill out all you pompous folk!
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French my ar*e. Why did you post this?
And it's xenophobia. 
I am currently 33
.. The dream of being a pilot has always been there
Finished school with GCSEs and A Levels and then went on to University
completed my degree in Geographical Sciences
For the last 5 years I have worked in Financial markets and have gained UK and International diplomas in financial analysis.
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I remember a fair while back, when a french pilots union had a huff about, allowing their pilots to have a glass of wine with their meal! Now really, wasn“t that a miss calculation
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Juniour - Will you take it from professional pilots who have been in the industry just about all their working lives that the point you are trying to make about calculations is not valid?
Calculations made by a pilot relating to the job are carefully completed, using tables, computers, paper and pen and then scrutinised by at least one other member of crew.
Calculations, done in the head, possibly in a bar, may well not be accurate as fatigue, the previous drink, (and it only has to be one), and the possibility of time change, working in GMT instead of 'local' time etc. are all factors that will effect the accuracy of a mental calculation. Even Einstein made errors in calculations. Washington made an error and he is paying for it, he has never claimed to be perfect.
Calculations made by a pilot relating to the job are carefully completed, using tables, computers, paper and pen and then scrutinised by at least one other member of crew.
Calculations, done in the head, possibly in a bar, may well not be accurate as fatigue, the previous drink, (and it only has to be one), and the possibility of time change, working in GMT instead of 'local' time etc. are all factors that will effect the accuracy of a mental calculation. Even Einstein made errors in calculations. Washington made an error and he is paying for it, he has never claimed to be perfect.
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He warned United Airlines any other pilot found to be over the limit will face prison
There have been many headline reports in the press. Here is the largest report in the UK press that I could find plus a few other aditional items that may be of interest.
'Drunk' pilot who prepared to take off from Heathrow Airport avoids jail | Mail Online
Isleworth Crown Court today heard that Washington, from Lakewood, Colorado, was an experienced airline captain who had also served in the US Air Force in every conflict between 1984 and 2005.
However, Judge Sam Katkhuda criticised the growing number of pilots appearing in court charged with excess alcohol as he gave Washington a ten-month suspended jail sentence.
He warned United Airlines any other pilot found to be over the limit will face prison.
The judge said: 'This type of behaviour by a pilot of an aircraft is regarded as a very serious matter indeed.
'In this court, situated as it is so close to Heathrow, we have to deal with an increasing number of cases involving airline pilots who arrive at Heathrow to fly passenger aircraft while having excess alcohol in their blood.
'This is simply not acceptable. It was entirely voluntary on your part that you consumed alcoholic drink.
'As a pilot yourself you know well that travelling on an aircraft does not only place a special duty on passengers to behave in an orderly manner but also places a special responsibility on pilots who must comply with their duty not to have consumed alcohol above the proscribed limit.
'It's sad to see a man of your experience and background before a court for a criminal offence.
'The rules regarding the consumption of alcohol by pilots who are on duty are there for a purpose and those rules must be obeyed.'
He told Washington flying while over the limit could have resulted in catastrophe.
He added: 'In the circumstances of this case, the least possible sentence I can impose is ten months imprisonment but having heard the mitigation presented to me and testimonials of 15 people who know you well, I am prepared on this occasion to suspend the sentence for a period of two years.'
Two of United Airlines chief pilots, Captains Bo Ellis and Walter Clarke, attended court after flying to the UK especially to support father-of-three Washington. His wife Barbara was also in the court room.
The court heard he had 50 micrograms of alcohol in 100ml of blood. The legal limit is 20ml.
Neil Fitzgibbons, in mitigation, described the case as a 'miscalculation' that put his career on the line.
He said: 'He regrets that he has put his entire future and career on the line.
'Captain Washington knows the serious position he is in having put everything on the line for what was a miscalculation on his part.'
The court heard Washington has been placed on a evaluation programme by United Airlines and will not be able to fly for at least 12 months. He was also ordered to pay £350 in costs.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252348/Drunk-pilot-prepared-Heathrow-Airport-avoids-jail.html#ixzz0g6us4kav
Another report that seems to only appear in the Daily Mirror which is a little suprising.
Drunk 767 pilot avoids prison term - mirror.co.uk
--- His barrister told Isleworth crown court: "This came as a consequence of Captain Washington not expecting to do this particular flight "It was a miscalculation, he apologises to all concerned.
This part does not seem to be reported anywhere else. Was he switched from operating a later flight?
In another report
....told the court that Washington was currently enrolled in a rehab program, and United Airlines "wish to retain his services."
'Drunk' pilot who prepared to take off from Heathrow Airport avoids jail | Mail Online
Isleworth Crown Court today heard that Washington, from Lakewood, Colorado, was an experienced airline captain who had also served in the US Air Force in every conflict between 1984 and 2005.
However, Judge Sam Katkhuda criticised the growing number of pilots appearing in court charged with excess alcohol as he gave Washington a ten-month suspended jail sentence.
He warned United Airlines any other pilot found to be over the limit will face prison.
The judge said: 'This type of behaviour by a pilot of an aircraft is regarded as a very serious matter indeed.
'In this court, situated as it is so close to Heathrow, we have to deal with an increasing number of cases involving airline pilots who arrive at Heathrow to fly passenger aircraft while having excess alcohol in their blood.
'This is simply not acceptable. It was entirely voluntary on your part that you consumed alcoholic drink.
'As a pilot yourself you know well that travelling on an aircraft does not only place a special duty on passengers to behave in an orderly manner but also places a special responsibility on pilots who must comply with their duty not to have consumed alcohol above the proscribed limit.
'It's sad to see a man of your experience and background before a court for a criminal offence.
'The rules regarding the consumption of alcohol by pilots who are on duty are there for a purpose and those rules must be obeyed.'
He told Washington flying while over the limit could have resulted in catastrophe.
He added: 'In the circumstances of this case, the least possible sentence I can impose is ten months imprisonment but having heard the mitigation presented to me and testimonials of 15 people who know you well, I am prepared on this occasion to suspend the sentence for a period of two years.'
Two of United Airlines chief pilots, Captains Bo Ellis and Walter Clarke, attended court after flying to the UK especially to support father-of-three Washington. His wife Barbara was also in the court room.
The court heard he had 50 micrograms of alcohol in 100ml of blood. The legal limit is 20ml.
Neil Fitzgibbons, in mitigation, described the case as a 'miscalculation' that put his career on the line.
He said: 'He regrets that he has put his entire future and career on the line.
'Captain Washington knows the serious position he is in having put everything on the line for what was a miscalculation on his part.'
The court heard Washington has been placed on a evaluation programme by United Airlines and will not be able to fly for at least 12 months. He was also ordered to pay £350 in costs.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252348/Drunk-pilot-prepared-Heathrow-Airport-avoids-jail.html#ixzz0g6us4kav
Another report that seems to only appear in the Daily Mirror which is a little suprising.
Drunk 767 pilot avoids prison term - mirror.co.uk
--- His barrister told Isleworth crown court: "This came as a consequence of Captain Washington not expecting to do this particular flight "It was a miscalculation, he apologises to all concerned.
This part does not seem to be reported anywhere else. Was he switched from operating a later flight?
In another report
....told the court that Washington was currently enrolled in a rehab program, and United Airlines "wish to retain his services."
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Looks like potentially another saved career for ALPA and OBAP. I would say less than half of these cases ever get media attention.
The company will loudly proclaim a 'zero-tolerance' policy for drugs and alcohol and then quietly show up as they did at this and the other UK hearings to support the pilot.
UAL presumably has a H.I.M.S. agreement (see HIMS - A Substance Abuse Treatment Program For Commercial Pilots ) with the union that protects Captain Washington's job if he successfully completes certain milestones in rehab. Most large U.S. carriers have this, some are historically more generous than others in this regard.
This guy will probably have his year off, some of it paid by sick leave, and return to the line with his seniority intact. He'll have to be on the wagon for maybe three years and subject to increased drug and alcohol testing.
From recent cases of which I have personal knowledge, sometimes the feds take all of your tickets and make you earn them back, sometimes they don't.
This is a perennial news story and thread here in PPRuNe, unfortunately.
The company will loudly proclaim a 'zero-tolerance' policy for drugs and alcohol and then quietly show up as they did at this and the other UK hearings to support the pilot.
UAL presumably has a H.I.M.S. agreement (see HIMS - A Substance Abuse Treatment Program For Commercial Pilots ) with the union that protects Captain Washington's job if he successfully completes certain milestones in rehab. Most large U.S. carriers have this, some are historically more generous than others in this regard.
This guy will probably have his year off, some of it paid by sick leave, and return to the line with his seniority intact. He'll have to be on the wagon for maybe three years and subject to increased drug and alcohol testing.
From recent cases of which I have personal knowledge, sometimes the feds take all of your tickets and make you earn them back, sometimes they don't.
This is a perennial news story and thread here in PPRuNe, unfortunately.
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Dakotablue - I know I was being ironic -I knew someone would take the bait!
ok, you guys win on the calculation front - still it's pretty bad personal management to turn upto to captain a flight with alcohol on your breath... a smart capatin would have used some mouth wash! maybe in his subconciouss he wanted to get caught?? is that Freud or Jung
ok, you guys win on the calculation front - still it's pretty bad personal management to turn upto to captain a flight with alcohol on your breath... a smart capatin would have used some mouth wash! maybe in his subconciouss he wanted to get caught?? is that Freud or Jung
Last edited by juniour jetset; 21st Feb 2010 at 07:59.
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Question?
I am left questioning the 20mg limit for transport workers, do you think it is too tight?
Is this a product of the blame culture whiped up by the lawers or the nanny state who having bannished smokers are now turning on those who like a drink?
On a personal note I would like the limit for transport workers to be set at half the driving limit...............opinions please.
Is this a product of the blame culture whiped up by the lawers or the nanny state who having bannished smokers are now turning on those who like a drink?
On a personal note I would like the limit for transport workers to be set at half the driving limit...............opinions please.