United pilot arrested at LHR
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: LAX
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it not part of being a professional, in any profession (such as my own, not a commercial pilot), to behave to certain standards regardless of the pressures that are brought to bear (financial, personal, whatever)? Drinking to excess because of some personal problem or distance from home - what a load of cobblers. Perhaps neurosurgeons should reconsider their attitude towards drinking and operating as well ...
the lunatic fringe
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Everywhere
Age: 67
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Without looking at slickster's profile, I can tell just from his post that he has done the job of flying longhaul for a major. No need for profiles. I can tell that because I do that same job. Unlike some of you that clearly have never have, and fail totally to understand the point he was making. Preferring to make stupidly abusive posts.
I have news for some of you.. Pilots are human. They have human faults, and human problems. Our children still get sick, family die, and wife's run off with the next door neighbour. And when you next get on an aeroplane your pilot just might have had a blazing row with his girlfriend. But you know what, 99.999% of us deal with the problems of life appropriately. And what is more, appropriately on the end of a phone, 6000 miles away from home. Time after time, and year after year.
I have news for some of you.. Pilots are human. They have human faults, and human problems. Our children still get sick, family die, and wife's run off with the next door neighbour. And when you next get on an aeroplane your pilot just might have had a blazing row with his girlfriend. But you know what, 99.999% of us deal with the problems of life appropriately. And what is more, appropriately on the end of a phone, 6000 miles away from home. Time after time, and year after year.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Windsor UK
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We have a situation where a Pilot is allegedly over the allowed limit (which is miniscule) and suddenly he is a drunk unable to cope with life and mentally unstable or so it seems from some of the posts on here - where are the facts and also may I say I am astounded at the no of people on here with no experience of the job but with such big opinions - remarkable
Regrettably:
BBC News - US pilot admits being over alcohol limit
BBC News - US pilot admits being over alcohol limit
A US pilot has pleaded guilty to being over the alcohol limit while in charge of an aircraft.
He admitted a charge of "being aviation staff performing an aviation function whilst exceeding the proscribed alcohol limit".
A blood test revealed 50 milligrams of alcohol in 100ml of blood. The limit for pilots is 20 milligrams of alcohol, compared to the legal limit of 80 milligrams for motorists.
The United Airlines pilot will be sentenced on 5 February at Uxbridge Magistrates Court in west London.
He admitted a charge of "being aviation staff performing an aviation function whilst exceeding the proscribed alcohol limit".
A blood test revealed 50 milligrams of alcohol in 100ml of blood. The limit for pilots is 20 milligrams of alcohol, compared to the legal limit of 80 milligrams for motorists.
The United Airlines pilot will be sentenced on 5 February at Uxbridge Magistrates Court in west London.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
Posts: 2,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time to close this [and ban any future threads on this theme?] before we get into the sanctimonious "See, I told you he was drunk etc, etc" scenario?
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sanctimonious "See, I told you he was drunk etc, etc" scenario?
A blood test revealed 50 milligrams of alcohol in 100ml of blood. The limit for pilots is 20 milligrams of alcohol, compared to the legal limit of 80 milligrams for motorists.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: uk
Age: 55
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And ive been so tired starting my duties ,leaving Japan for a daylightflight home ,that the affects must have been worse than a couple of pints of sapporro the night before .Two things,if i had "gone sick" or declared myself fatigued ,my employer whould have been unimpressed to say the least and also ,in the UK at least ,anything that can be measured is sacred compared to tiredness which is more subjective but just as dangerous. A messed up peurile system ,just like security ,all IMHO of coures!
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Slickster
I've read your post #68, and fully empathise and agree with the points made about the rigours and demands of your job, and indeed your desire for people to give the poor guy a bit of a break. Now the facts are out he was even below the legal motorist limit, so hardly 'drunk'. He made a mistake. That's all. Normal human beings tend to do that occasionally.
Btw I'm also an 'armchair pilot' (although admittedly I do have 18hrs logged up to now in a spamcan). So maybe not all armchair pilots are that bad?
Btw I'm also an 'armchair pilot' (although admittedly I do have 18hrs logged up to now in a spamcan). So maybe not all armchair pilots are that bad?
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Surrey (actually)
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I expect the "dumb ass" in question, as you politely refer to him, at least knows how to spell "break", and how to brake his aeroplane or car. Now, who's the dumb ass?
Speke2me, thanks for your consideration. To err is human, and this chap will, no doubt, pay a hefty price for his erring.
Speke2me, thanks for your consideration. To err is human, and this chap will, no doubt, pay a hefty price for his erring.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry for the mispelling ERROR Slickster, as it was not INTENTIONAL.
Would you agree that this chap had the required knowledge to curb his alcohol consumption within the time limits as he learned from his training, company requirements, and Federal Aviation Regulations?
I mean come on this is not like forgetting to put the seat down after using the toilet is it?
I really can't see how this was an error.
Would you agree that this chap had the required knowledge to curb his alcohol consumption within the time limits as he learned from his training, company requirements, and Federal Aviation Regulations?
I mean come on this is not like forgetting to put the seat down after using the toilet is it?
I really can't see how this was an error.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Surrey (actually)
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wouldn't have jumped on your spelling mistake, if you hadn't used the term "dumb ass". He's almost certainly lost his job, and will probably go to prison (yes, for breaking the Law), so I think your comments are uncalled for.
Yes, I would say this chap made a big mistake, or error, but I don't know the whys and wherefores of it, suffice to say the punishment will more than fit the crime.
err |ər; er|
verb [ intrans. ] formal
be mistaken or incorrect; make a mistake : the judge had erred in ruling that the evidence was inadmissible.
• [often as adj. ] ( erring) sin; do wrong : the erring brother who had wrecked his life.
verb [ intrans. ] formal
be mistaken or incorrect; make a mistake : the judge had erred in ruling that the evidence was inadmissible.
• [often as adj. ] ( erring) sin; do wrong : the erring brother who had wrecked his life.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're right Slickster, my term "Dumb ass" was uncalled for. Personally, with over 30 years of airline experience, I find it insulting when crewmembers feel they are above their colleagues, and rules and regulations do not apply to them. It's because of such inappropriate behaviour, the respect we deserve is continually eroded.
IMHO he will have paid the price with the loss of his job, and thus prison will not serve any useful purpose.
IMHO he will have paid the price with the loss of his job, and thus prison will not serve any useful purpose.
Fortunately the court, where he is tried for his misdemeanour, cannot also 'sack' him, it has to apply it's own sanction, which cannot fully take into account the likelihood of his employer's actions (that would be in the realms of fortune telling.) I say fortunately because any other course would be totalitarian.
I agree that losing his job as a pilot, should it happen, is more than enough of a sanction and deterrent. If he doesn't lose his employment there has to be some form of sentence. It's all very sad really.
I agree that losing his job as a pilot, should it happen, is more than enough of a sanction and deterrent. If he doesn't lose his employment there has to be some form of sentence. It's all very sad really.
Bring back the old days when the skippers often had a sharpener on the last leg home. & landing drinks were the norm. As for bottle to throttle, well as long as you got back to the hotel to change that was ok. Oh & it was ok as long as you could walk, not neccessarly in a straight line.
Yes flights did go like that, but more to the point aircraft were not crashing because of it. Obviously pilots were made of sterner stuff then.
BUT!!! That was then, the world has changed & knowledge of the possible consequences and realization of potential catastroughy. Also modern a/c need much more management rather than seat of the pants stuff.
I am amazed that pilots still take the risk of being over the limit, considering the resultant outcome of being found out. However the limits being so low I guess some think they will be ok by then that seems to be the problem, rather than being actually too drunk to operate. Somehow we need to educate and care for those individuals who can not fathom their limit.
Maybe a test machine on report would be good, without predjudice would work.
1. You would not get someone over the limit operating
2. Those individuals who are found to be over the limit would soon learn not to drink prior to duty.
A whole lot safer than the present system of relying on coleaugues security etc thinking they can smell drink on the breath.
Yes flights did go like that, but more to the point aircraft were not crashing because of it. Obviously pilots were made of sterner stuff then.
BUT!!! That was then, the world has changed & knowledge of the possible consequences and realization of potential catastroughy. Also modern a/c need much more management rather than seat of the pants stuff.
I am amazed that pilots still take the risk of being over the limit, considering the resultant outcome of being found out. However the limits being so low I guess some think they will be ok by then that seems to be the problem, rather than being actually too drunk to operate. Somehow we need to educate and care for those individuals who can not fathom their limit.
Maybe a test machine on report would be good, without predjudice would work.
1. You would not get someone over the limit operating
2. Those individuals who are found to be over the limit would soon learn not to drink prior to duty.
A whole lot safer than the present system of relying on coleaugues security etc thinking they can smell drink on the breath.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Jersey, CI
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many years ago - in the early 1970's, to be more precise - I was an operations agent for TWA at Ben-Gurion Airport, Tel Aviv.
I was briefing a flight crew early one morning when I detected a strong smell of alcohol on a captain's breath. I consulted the station manager (the late, great, Louis Fogiel), who sent a TTY message to the Rome despatcher's office.
The boozy-breathed aviator was summarily suspended from duty and a check captain, due to take a later flight out, was hastily roused from his bed to take his place.
We never saw the offending pilot again in TLVKO.
I was briefing a flight crew early one morning when I detected a strong smell of alcohol on a captain's breath. I consulted the station manager (the late, great, Louis Fogiel), who sent a TTY message to the Rome despatcher's office.
The boozy-breathed aviator was summarily suspended from duty and a check captain, due to take a later flight out, was hastily roused from his bed to take his place.
We never saw the offending pilot again in TLVKO.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Speke2me, thanks for your consideration. To err is human, and this chap will, no doubt, pay a hefty price for his erring."
And no doubt he will. End of his career. Just to say again, it was a mistake, and we all make them.
This thread is a bit like 'tea cup' and 'storm'. As a flying punter, I respect the professionalism of pilots worldwide. I am far more likely to be knocked over by a bus than meet my end in an aircraft, and you can probably multiply the odds by 1000,000 that the pilot flying that crash plane was drunk.
Hope the guy keeps his bloody pension anyway.
And no doubt he will. End of his career. Just to say again, it was a mistake, and we all make them.
This thread is a bit like 'tea cup' and 'storm'. As a flying punter, I respect the professionalism of pilots worldwide. I am far more likely to be knocked over by a bus than meet my end in an aircraft, and you can probably multiply the odds by 1000,000 that the pilot flying that crash plane was drunk.
Hope the guy keeps his bloody pension anyway.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Mostly here, but often there
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Slickster
Fine post - look forward to sharing a beer (Jehovah, Jehovah!) with you as I fear we're on the same beasty. The last few days at LHR are enough to drive anyone to drink!!
In a previous life, I think the rule was no drinking within 25 yards of the aircraft and no smoking within 12 hours...
Good luck to the guy on Feb 5th. Yes, I said it, good luck to him.
Fine post - look forward to sharing a beer (Jehovah, Jehovah!) with you as I fear we're on the same beasty. The last few days at LHR are enough to drive anyone to drink!!
In a previous life, I think the rule was no drinking within 25 yards of the aircraft and no smoking within 12 hours...
Good luck to the guy on Feb 5th. Yes, I said it, good luck to him.