12 A300 and A320 Captains required right now
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: U.K
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12 A300 and A320 Captains required right now
Got an email from a friend of mine in Kuwait Airways today.
They require immediate 300 and 320 captains (about 12 Captains are required urgently and more next year, expansion is the go with 330s being ordered shortly).
Doesn't matter if you are current on type or haven't flown for quite a while (years I hear) as they will put you through a full 3 week ground school conversion and 9 sessions of simulator. Apparently Kuwait Airways will consider giving 320 conversions to non fly by wire captains on a case by case subject to previous airline experience and type.
If you are interested and want all the details then contact.
Faisal Al-Dai
Kuwait Airways
A300 A320 pilot recruitment director
email: [email protected]
Tel: 965 476 3281
fax: 965 431 6713
They require immediate 300 and 320 captains (about 12 Captains are required urgently and more next year, expansion is the go with 330s being ordered shortly).
Doesn't matter if you are current on type or haven't flown for quite a while (years I hear) as they will put you through a full 3 week ground school conversion and 9 sessions of simulator. Apparently Kuwait Airways will consider giving 320 conversions to non fly by wire captains on a case by case subject to previous airline experience and type.
If you are interested and want all the details then contact.
Faisal Al-Dai
Kuwait Airways
A300 A320 pilot recruitment director
email: [email protected]
Tel: 965 476 3281
fax: 965 431 6713
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wonder how long it will take some to realise that----
The high salaries and superior lifestyle of the expat pilot are rapidly becoming a thing of the past.
The Cathay guys are finding this out now, and there will be more to follow.
The high salaries and superior lifestyle of the expat pilot are rapidly becoming a thing of the past.
The Cathay guys are finding this out now, and there will be more to follow.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Yes 411 - you're quite a thinker aren't you? (I left a message for you on the Fragrant Harbour forum under the "Real Cathay Pilots" thread). Your post above is exactly what I spoke of in that thread and you are today true to form.
Additionally suggest you are way out of touch with market reality. The United, American and Delta deals will filter through the industry. The Lufthansa deal a few days back is proof of this. It will essentially become a Supply and Demand issue. On an adjusted basis, the CX salaries (and certaily Kuwaiti salaries) are now poor, particularly when compared to the US.
If CX for example want a quality airline they will need quality pilots - to whom they need to pay a premium for living in HK. Wielding the big stick as they have done will not result in a quality airline.
[ 10 July 2001: Message edited by: Tom Tipper ]
Additionally suggest you are way out of touch with market reality. The United, American and Delta deals will filter through the industry. The Lufthansa deal a few days back is proof of this. It will essentially become a Supply and Demand issue. On an adjusted basis, the CX salaries (and certaily Kuwaiti salaries) are now poor, particularly when compared to the US.
If CX for example want a quality airline they will need quality pilots - to whom they need to pay a premium for living in HK. Wielding the big stick as they have done will not result in a quality airline.
[ 10 July 2001: Message edited by: Tom Tipper ]
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually Tom, I am more atuned to the market than you think. The US carriers, and now to a lesser extent the European carriers are having to pay higher salaries, and yes a "small" shortage will develop, but smaller than you think. But, for the expat guys, who face continued pressure from TCN's, will feel the pinch and find that their once very nice salaries are now trending lower. This is not likely to change anytime soon. SIA was able to place ads in Flight International (and did so twice per month from '77 to '80) to attract Captains, and a large majority of these were from BA. Now, suspect they will come from CX. The big losers in this will be the CX F/O's, unless of course they bite the bullet and accept the new terms. With some of the senior guys "gone" then their upgrade potential may actually be enhanced.
[ 10 July 2001: Message edited by: 411A ]
[ 10 July 2001: Message edited by: 411A ]
Guest
Posts: n/a
411. A recent survey conducted by the Boeing Commercial Aircraft Corp. stated that by 2005 the shortage of experienced aircrew would become 'severe'. Furthermore by 2009 this shortage would be "critical".
So there you have it. The largest aircraft manufacturer in the world commenting on the situation. In Australia there is no real shortage of pilots (though things are changing) hence the lousy salaries that (particularly QF 767 pilots) receive.
In Hong Kong however, the locals DO NOT want to fly - it is a very different attitude to that in Singapore. There is no local airforce and there is no prestige in flying (any wonder, given the way management treat their aircrew there).
So as a consequence CX are FORCED to employ expatriates. If they want the best then they need to offer the best terms and conditions. Given supply based eonomics, they are hardly addressing the future of their company in a logical manner at present.
Sure than can employ cheaper pilots from (for example) former Eastern Block countries, but as Crossair demonstrated, that may not be a recipe for success.
It is a fact (though not politically correct) that passengers pay more to fly CX because they believe they have a distinctly higher chance of survival. When you look at the competition (Korean, China Airlines, Singapore Airlines) their accident/incident rates are shameful and the public know that.
Pax on CX know all this and it is a substantial part of the reason CX was so profitable recently. It is often said employees "bight the hand that feeds them" but in the CX case may I suggest it is the pilots and the reputation they have bought the airline, which is in fact directly feeding the managers. These CEO's etc are now literally bighting the hand that is feeding them.
Attempted destruction of that pilot group is 1) An excercise in futility as Supply shortage will dictate that they will do as well or better elsewhere - in the medium term.
2) A recipe for destroying the very factor that makes the airline so popular.
So there you have it. The largest aircraft manufacturer in the world commenting on the situation. In Australia there is no real shortage of pilots (though things are changing) hence the lousy salaries that (particularly QF 767 pilots) receive.
In Hong Kong however, the locals DO NOT want to fly - it is a very different attitude to that in Singapore. There is no local airforce and there is no prestige in flying (any wonder, given the way management treat their aircrew there).
So as a consequence CX are FORCED to employ expatriates. If they want the best then they need to offer the best terms and conditions. Given supply based eonomics, they are hardly addressing the future of their company in a logical manner at present.
Sure than can employ cheaper pilots from (for example) former Eastern Block countries, but as Crossair demonstrated, that may not be a recipe for success.
It is a fact (though not politically correct) that passengers pay more to fly CX because they believe they have a distinctly higher chance of survival. When you look at the competition (Korean, China Airlines, Singapore Airlines) their accident/incident rates are shameful and the public know that.
Pax on CX know all this and it is a substantial part of the reason CX was so profitable recently. It is often said employees "bight the hand that feeds them" but in the CX case may I suggest it is the pilots and the reputation they have bought the airline, which is in fact directly feeding the managers. These CEO's etc are now literally bighting the hand that is feeding them.
Attempted destruction of that pilot group is 1) An excercise in futility as Supply shortage will dictate that they will do as well or better elsewhere - in the medium term.
2) A recipe for destroying the very factor that makes the airline so popular.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tom Tipper---
The Boeing survey is correct, as far as it goes. However, it applies almost exclusivly to western carriers. The pilots working there can indeed expect increased salaries over the next few years.
But for the expat guys, working overseas for smaller carriers, they will be lucky to keep their salaries level (as adjusted for inflation). This is just opposite to the situation that existed 30 years ago.
Just ask the guys at EK. They were very disappointed to receive only a 2% increase.
The double digit increases for expat guys are over, going away, just as surely as the "A" scale at CX. TCN's are moving into these carriers at an ever increasing rate. And the salaries that these guys will work for are looked at very favorably by management. Sad, but those are the facts.
[ 10 July 2001: Message edited by: 411A ]
The Boeing survey is correct, as far as it goes. However, it applies almost exclusivly to western carriers. The pilots working there can indeed expect increased salaries over the next few years.
But for the expat guys, working overseas for smaller carriers, they will be lucky to keep their salaries level (as adjusted for inflation). This is just opposite to the situation that existed 30 years ago.
Just ask the guys at EK. They were very disappointed to receive only a 2% increase.
The double digit increases for expat guys are over, going away, just as surely as the "A" scale at CX. TCN's are moving into these carriers at an ever increasing rate. And the salaries that these guys will work for are looked at very favorably by management. Sad, but those are the facts.
[ 10 July 2001: Message edited by: 411A ]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Now back to the original question please.
Anyway KAC employed a number of pilots a few months back onto the A300 and due to infighting with the union terminated them for one reason or another.
There is one rule and only one rule to remember where Kuwait Airways are concerned and that is when anyone from management opens his mouth to speak to you you know he is bull sh*ting you!
The flying is very ordinary ,pay is even more ordinary and vacation time is now only 35 days (down from 56).
To leave the place on days off is near impossible because you need to get an exit letter to get out AND you have to put a leave request in even though you are on days off.Therefore you eat into your leave.
The A320 flying is hard work, shorthaul in the middle of summer.
Better off looking elsewhere.
Anyway KAC employed a number of pilots a few months back onto the A300 and due to infighting with the union terminated them for one reason or another.
There is one rule and only one rule to remember where Kuwait Airways are concerned and that is when anyone from management opens his mouth to speak to you you know he is bull sh*ting you!
The flying is very ordinary ,pay is even more ordinary and vacation time is now only 35 days (down from 56).
To leave the place on days off is near impossible because you need to get an exit letter to get out AND you have to put a leave request in even though you are on days off.Therefore you eat into your leave.
The A320 flying is hard work, shorthaul in the middle of summer.
Better off looking elsewhere.
SkyGod
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Palm Coast, Florida, USA
Age: 67
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
1 Post
Governor:
I thought the UA/US deal was back on?
(As of yesterday or the day before?)
Now back off again?
At any rate, I have also paid my dues with KAC. Just as described above: Ya can't leave the country without the exit letter and the blessings of managment.
I had 4 days off per month, split into 2+2.
Pay was average, but per-diem pretty good:
$6.00 per hour.
After all was said and done, not a bad job, but I was on the long hauls and did the nice long lay-overs in Bangkok, London, NY etc.
Doing the A-320...Nah, I wouldn't.
I thought the UA/US deal was back on?
(As of yesterday or the day before?)
Now back off again?
At any rate, I have also paid my dues with KAC. Just as described above: Ya can't leave the country without the exit letter and the blessings of managment.
I had 4 days off per month, split into 2+2.
Pay was average, but per-diem pretty good:
$6.00 per hour.
After all was said and done, not a bad job, but I was on the long hauls and did the nice long lay-overs in Bangkok, London, NY etc.
Doing the A-320...Nah, I wouldn't.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Grow up mile hi...jet blast is where name-calling belongs KA is definitely "bottom of the barrel" from 2 mates who are there now....long haul ok a-320..forget it both are 320...needing time-on-type..it's a hit and run sort of place these days...
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whats the exchange rate out there? or more to the point, what is KD 1025 per month as a direct entry A320 Captain worth in UK Sterling
tried a search on the FT website, but no record of Kuwait..perhaps its trying to tell me something!!
tried a search on the FT website, but no record of Kuwait..perhaps its trying to tell me something!!
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Austria
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1,025.00 KWD Kuwait Dinars=2,373.66 GBP =3,333.33 USD
is that per WEEK ?
try the www.xe.com/ucc converter
is that per WEEK ?
try the www.xe.com/ucc converter
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No that was a monthly salary offered plus a couple of other sweeteners circa 450 KWD per month....Surely a mistake..I,m making double that now in the UK after Tax..
The funny thing is that the recruitment Guy has sent me numerous emails by error, one adressed to a senior Guy on the Fleet at my current employer..that did make me smile...
The funny thing is that the recruitment Guy has sent me numerous emails by error, one adressed to a senior Guy on the Fleet at my current employer..that did make me smile...
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Far East
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also have done my time in Kuwait and genuine comments above are correct. Long haul(A340/B777) is best and short haul on the A320 is very hard work especially in summer when temperature is close to or above 50. A300/A310 is a bit of both. And yes they are despirate for Captains on any of the above.
Remuneration mentioned above is misleading. The starting basic salary for a Captain is as mentioned KD1025. To this you must add the various allowances, nature of duty allowance (KD300), Lay Over allowance and so on. Also add to this Company accommodation or the allowance and things get a little better. The above are increased annually. If you join with more than 15000 hours or stay there more than 4 years you get Senior Captain status and salary increases even further. Now don't get me wrong, the salary stinks but its not to bad when you consider the cost of living in Kuwait.
The Company should and could be a very good operation, generally the training is good be it a little slow, the route structure is good and the Company has the infrastructure it needs, unfortunately the management is hopeless all the way to the top. Add to that the internal corruption within the management an it all adds up to a very sad situation. Given decent management, free of corruption and government/waster influence it could be a very good Company.
My advice is don't go there unless you are despirate and definately don't go as a First Officer as there is no promotion of any kind. Also remember the two points mentioned previously. First, don't believe any promises made by management unless it is in writing and you can't leave the country on days off without getting an exit visa and having approved leave.
Be Careful
Remuneration mentioned above is misleading. The starting basic salary for a Captain is as mentioned KD1025. To this you must add the various allowances, nature of duty allowance (KD300), Lay Over allowance and so on. Also add to this Company accommodation or the allowance and things get a little better. The above are increased annually. If you join with more than 15000 hours or stay there more than 4 years you get Senior Captain status and salary increases even further. Now don't get me wrong, the salary stinks but its not to bad when you consider the cost of living in Kuwait.
The Company should and could be a very good operation, generally the training is good be it a little slow, the route structure is good and the Company has the infrastructure it needs, unfortunately the management is hopeless all the way to the top. Add to that the internal corruption within the management an it all adds up to a very sad situation. Given decent management, free of corruption and government/waster influence it could be a very good Company.
My advice is don't go there unless you are despirate and definately don't go as a First Officer as there is no promotion of any kind. Also remember the two points mentioned previously. First, don't believe any promises made by management unless it is in writing and you can't leave the country on days off without getting an exit visa and having approved leave.
Be Careful
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: New York
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KAC really hired some strange folks recently. One 300 Capt said he came from Pan Am (but did not) As far as we can tell, he has only flown corporate. A couple others are just hopeless. It seems that if you are a liar, can't fly, and prepared to do about anything to have a flying job...this is the place. Even when informed, management doesn't care.
In my resignation letter, I wished them the same successes that they had enjoyed in the past.
Towerdog...I would say that the short time that you were here is just about as long as most people can stand, and hey, I will look you up when I get home for some of those goodies that you used to make in your room in London.
In my resignation letter, I wished them the same successes that they had enjoyed in the past.
Towerdog...I would say that the short time that you were here is just about as long as most people can stand, and hey, I will look you up when I get home for some of those goodies that you used to make in your room in London.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Far East
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I still have contacts there and they are suffering in some areas - Captains only. There recent recruiting did not come off to well with I am told only one of the group getting cleared to the line.
Be careful
Be careful