CX sack 49 via DHL; impose new contract
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: CYYZ
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have been following this mess for a while now. I don't work for CX & seeing what's going on I never would want to, but figured I'd just add my two cents worth anyway.
We have a management here who appear to be talking $$$ all the time. They feel the pilots are overpaid and must be brought in line. It makes me wonder what their wages are like & what sacrifices they intend to make to "keep the ship afloat"????!!!!!
All this makes me think about the early 80's when Chrysler was going belly-up in the States & Lee Iaccoa was at the helm. He took a salary of $1/yr before instituting any cuts for the employees. Now that's a manager!!!!! Turnbull & the rest of his sharks should take a page out of that man's book.
I have to add that I thing the pilots at CX are a tremendous bunch, very professional & commited. I have flown the airline a number of times & have also had the opportunity to be in the cockpit for landings, take off & in the cruise. You boys should hang tough now & knock Turnbull & co for six!!!
Enough said!!!!!!
[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: PCav8or ]
We have a management here who appear to be talking $$$ all the time. They feel the pilots are overpaid and must be brought in line. It makes me wonder what their wages are like & what sacrifices they intend to make to "keep the ship afloat"????!!!!!
All this makes me think about the early 80's when Chrysler was going belly-up in the States & Lee Iaccoa was at the helm. He took a salary of $1/yr before instituting any cuts for the employees. Now that's a manager!!!!! Turnbull & the rest of his sharks should take a page out of that man's book.
I have to add that I thing the pilots at CX are a tremendous bunch, very professional & commited. I have flown the airline a number of times & have also had the opportunity to be in the cockpit for landings, take off & in the cruise. You boys should hang tough now & knock Turnbull & co for six!!!
Enough said!!!!!!
[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: PCav8or ]
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kaptin M: Thanks for the explanation, and my apology for mis-spelling your name on my previous post.
mcdude: To be exact, China is on the side on Hong Kong. For both economic reason and political reason, Hong Kong's prosperity is still extremely important for China. It will ensure that everyone going to Hong Kong will have a smooth journey, thus off set any damage from the industrial action. In comparison, the "expat mgmt problem" is minor. They don't care about a few people in CX being overpaid as long as the carrier can provide smooth operations at reasonable cost. Nevertheless, HK will open up its sky faster to reduce reliance on CX.
And for those who tell the CX pilots to keep on fighting: ask yourself how much details you know about the situation. Do you know the labor law in HK? (HKAOA never use the word STRIKE because there is no law to protect them and company can fire people who go on strike without compensation) Do you know how much a Chinese pilot made in a year? (US$20,000) etc etc. If you do believe that you have enough knowledge, and your suggestion is made after careful thoughts rather than wishful thinking, then say so. Otherwise, although you have the good intend, you are not really helping them. Most of the time, reality is bitter and not what we want.
mcdude: To be exact, China is on the side on Hong Kong. For both economic reason and political reason, Hong Kong's prosperity is still extremely important for China. It will ensure that everyone going to Hong Kong will have a smooth journey, thus off set any damage from the industrial action. In comparison, the "expat mgmt problem" is minor. They don't care about a few people in CX being overpaid as long as the carrier can provide smooth operations at reasonable cost. Nevertheless, HK will open up its sky faster to reduce reliance on CX.
And for those who tell the CX pilots to keep on fighting: ask yourself how much details you know about the situation. Do you know the labor law in HK? (HKAOA never use the word STRIKE because there is no law to protect them and company can fire people who go on strike without compensation) Do you know how much a Chinese pilot made in a year? (US$20,000) etc etc. If you do believe that you have enough knowledge, and your suggestion is made after careful thoughts rather than wishful thinking, then say so. Otherwise, although you have the good intend, you are not really helping them. Most of the time, reality is bitter and not what we want.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seat81A---
You are quite right about the Chinese government intending to reduce reliance on CX for travel to HKG.
Suspect however that the Cathay pilots would rather think back to yesteryear when CX was the only game in town. If CX is to continue to grow and proper, it MUST keep costs in check, for that is exactly what its competition is doing. If the 'A' scale is to disappear, then that is the price that the pilots will have to pay to keep their jobs. The HKAOA simply does not have the muscle in the present regulatory and economic climate to do otherwise. If they were, for example, Delta Airlines, then the story would be completely different. But they are not, so second fiddle is the only seat available in the orchestra.
You are quite right about the Chinese government intending to reduce reliance on CX for travel to HKG.
Suspect however that the Cathay pilots would rather think back to yesteryear when CX was the only game in town. If CX is to continue to grow and proper, it MUST keep costs in check, for that is exactly what its competition is doing. If the 'A' scale is to disappear, then that is the price that the pilots will have to pay to keep their jobs. The HKAOA simply does not have the muscle in the present regulatory and economic climate to do otherwise. If they were, for example, Delta Airlines, then the story would be completely different. But they are not, so second fiddle is the only seat available in the orchestra.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 764
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chinese Pilots on $20,000 a year Second Fiddle? Like the Captain said reasoned debate please.
Just what is the safety record of theses pilots both of you mention with such enthusiasm?
If you think that any sensible sized company is going to send its top people on an aircraft crewed by people like that I think you have lost touch with reality.
The Cathay Crews are top notch professionals and should be paid a decent wage for what is a First Class Safety Record.
Just what is the safety record of theses pilots both of you mention with such enthusiasm?
If you think that any sensible sized company is going to send its top people on an aircraft crewed by people like that I think you have lost touch with reality.
The Cathay Crews are top notch professionals and should be paid a decent wage for what is a First Class Safety Record.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bigpants---
The general Chinese airline safety record is, without a doubt, abysmal. I would now expect a very big push toward a safety audit of these carriers, much the same as the KE audit of the recent past. Once this is done, expect to see these airlines give CX a run for the money. In the meantime, expect CX to soldier on as best it can, with or without the co-operation of its present pilots.
Interesting times ahead in the Pearl river delta.
The general Chinese airline safety record is, without a doubt, abysmal. I would now expect a very big push toward a safety audit of these carriers, much the same as the KE audit of the recent past. Once this is done, expect to see these airlines give CX a run for the money. In the meantime, expect CX to soldier on as best it can, with or without the co-operation of its present pilots.
Interesting times ahead in the Pearl river delta.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UTC +8
Posts: 2,626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not just Turnbull and his pitbulls who are posturing and creating upheaval at CX.
The big picture, if you can't quite imagine it just yet, is that HK companies are being cued by the mainlanders. Which is to say that highly compensated CX pilots may all be reemployed as, or replaced by, lesser compensated "Air Crew Services" type pilots from anywhere. Political and practical realities will prevail. Communist style.
The big picture, if you can't quite imagine it just yet, is that HK companies are being cued by the mainlanders. Which is to say that highly compensated CX pilots may all be reemployed as, or replaced by, lesser compensated "Air Crew Services" type pilots from anywhere. Political and practical realities will prevail. Communist style.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: HKG
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GlueBall:
If what you said is true then the first few to go should be Turnbull, Tyler, Barley, Leggat, et el instead of the 52 pilots. Philip Chen and Alan Wong can take over and run CX with help from Stanley Hui and Tung Chihuahua.
If what you said is true then the first few to go should be Turnbull, Tyler, Barley, Leggat, et el instead of the 52 pilots. Philip Chen and Alan Wong can take over and run CX with help from Stanley Hui and Tung Chihuahua.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: HK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SEAT 81A, that's spot on. The legal system in HK doesn't give much credence to union activity, and there's little protection against mass sackings. Think management will be looking to get less demanding "docile" pilots as replacements - does anyone know for instance if any Chinese pilots were amongst the sacked ones? And were the majority flying long haul or short haul routes? You need to get a lot more emotive on the PR front if you are going to stand a chance, guys - best of luck!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southern england
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Latest report from BBC has CX mgt claims of "close to 90% service". In fact it goes on to suggest that some of the "loan" planes will be returned.
"This weekend, it plans to return three of the 17 planes it chartered from other airlines to plug gaps in the schedule caused by the dispute over pay and conditions.
Furthermore, it will "look to release more of the 14 remaining chartered aircraft over the coming week".
Services to three destinations - Perth, Hanoi and Penang - will be restored over the weekend but scheduled flights to seven destinations remain disrupted, the company said."
"This weekend, it plans to return three of the 17 planes it chartered from other airlines to plug gaps in the schedule caused by the dispute over pay and conditions.
Furthermore, it will "look to release more of the 14 remaining chartered aircraft over the coming week".
Services to three destinations - Perth, Hanoi and Penang - will be restored over the weekend but scheduled flights to seven destinations remain disrupted, the company said."
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to clarify that my "Chinese Pilots" refer to those employed by the Mainland Chinese airlines, not the ethnic Chinese pilots employed by CX who are from Hong Kong.
The US$20,000 number is what they said to the media. I do not see any reason for them to lie, and this is still very respectable income in China. I am just a SLF so have no idea on the licensing system, but I think they porbably went through similar trainings and exams as you guys. Next time before you complain your own salary, try to think of your poor comrades in China first.
About safely of the Chinese airlines, it is actually quite good. Most of their accidents are on the very old planes (USSR made, Trident etc) and by now, they should have all been replaced. Second, there are significant safety reforms in recent years. If I remember correctly, there are only three fatal accident in the past 6 or 7 years. One is the crash of a TU144, the other is a local made turbo prop crashed in Wuhan, and I will count only the hard landing of a 737 by China Southern Airline in Shenzhen as the typical accident that we count.
Most people prefer CX for safety reason, but not a must. I have no problem flying on any Chinese Airlines but I would avodie CI, KE, and GA as much as possible. I also remember when I read the thread about the SQ006 crash, a lot of the discussions were about that an airline's system is an important factor for safety.
The US$20,000 number is what they said to the media. I do not see any reason for them to lie, and this is still very respectable income in China. I am just a SLF so have no idea on the licensing system, but I think they porbably went through similar trainings and exams as you guys. Next time before you complain your own salary, try to think of your poor comrades in China first.
About safely of the Chinese airlines, it is actually quite good. Most of their accidents are on the very old planes (USSR made, Trident etc) and by now, they should have all been replaced. Second, there are significant safety reforms in recent years. If I remember correctly, there are only three fatal accident in the past 6 or 7 years. One is the crash of a TU144, the other is a local made turbo prop crashed in Wuhan, and I will count only the hard landing of a 737 by China Southern Airline in Shenzhen as the typical accident that we count.
Most people prefer CX for safety reason, but not a must. I have no problem flying on any Chinese Airlines but I would avodie CI, KE, and GA as much as possible. I also remember when I read the thread about the SQ006 crash, a lot of the discussions were about that an airline's system is an important factor for safety.
