CX sack 49 via DHL; impose new contract
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Ironbutt", I wasn't referring to ALPA, I was referring to pilots thoughout the world. And you were there for Eastern, Frontier, et. al? You make me sick.
[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have warned about the poor PR of HKAOA long time ago (page 1 of the thread Countdown at Cathay). Unfortunately, no one seems to take it seriously until now.
My next warning is, CX got full spport from China. Most HK people is prepared to take some risk to fix this "expat pilot problem" once and for ever.
And Captain M: at the beginning of this thread, you mentioned that 52 pilots could operate 5 a/c. CX has about 65 a/c and on this base, they should have just 676 pilots. Either your number is wrong or CX has got 1,000 pilots more than what they need. In CX, each a/c is look aftered by about 25 pilots.
My next warning is, CX got full spport from China. Most HK people is prepared to take some risk to fix this "expat pilot problem" once and for ever.
And Captain M: at the beginning of this thread, you mentioned that 52 pilots could operate 5 a/c. CX has about 65 a/c and on this base, they should have just 676 pilots. Either your number is wrong or CX has got 1,000 pilots more than what they need. In CX, each a/c is look aftered by about 25 pilots.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
seat 81a - yes Kaptin M is wrong with his maths; more like 15 crew per aircraft.
The problem is purely between the AOA and CX - it is not a PR exercise for the aircrew.
"China" has never been a big fan of CX - i.e. why don't they fly there now?
What about the "expat management problem"?
The problem is purely between the AOA and CX - it is not a PR exercise for the aircrew.
"China" has never been a big fan of CX - i.e. why don't they fly there now?
What about the "expat management problem"?
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the situation is carried full circle, China may well tell the HKG government that Cathay is to be wound down or, in the interim, CX are to maximise wet-leasing of aircraft to cover for the obstinate CX expat crews, planning for their eventual replacement.
Echo of OZ '89 perhaps?
As for the CX pilots SIA, having had so many problems with these guys before, may well choose NOT to hire them, preferring to avoid the pain in the neck. I wonder, where will they go then?
Echo of OZ '89 perhaps?
As for the CX pilots SIA, having had so many problems with these guys before, may well choose NOT to hire them, preferring to avoid the pain in the neck. I wonder, where will they go then?
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Holland
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLF 3, 411A you disappoint me very much!!
What side are you on ??
Wino, I fully agree with you.
United we stand, divided we fall !!! (Quote from a former Dutch Alpa president)
Slam_dunk
What side are you on ??
Wino, I fully agree with you.
United we stand, divided we fall !!! (Quote from a former Dutch Alpa president)
Slam_dunk
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Tropical Island
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Applycarbheat
What's your problem?
In this fine capitalist system we live in, free collective bargaining is supposed to be the fair way of doing things. Their system is not really free and it will take extra skill to offset that disadvantage.
If they have the power and skill to negotiate a good deal in the circumstances, more power to them.
You sound a little envious,perhaps you come from a more socialist environment?
Maybe if you applied the capitalist philosophy you would be more prosperous and less envious.
What's your problem?
In this fine capitalist system we live in, free collective bargaining is supposed to be the fair way of doing things. Their system is not really free and it will take extra skill to offset that disadvantage.
If they have the power and skill to negotiate a good deal in the circumstances, more power to them.
You sound a little envious,perhaps you come from a more socialist environment?
Maybe if you applied the capitalist philosophy you would be more prosperous and less envious.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
SEAT 81A and mcdude, the "5 crews" per aircraft is "crew" as in Captain, F/O, F/E, AND S/O, which is a short term figure as used in the 1989 Australian Dispute by the airlines, but cited by them as "being all the pilots we need"...it carried them through for about 5 months, but is totally unrealistic for longer term operations.
And I don't believe any realistic management is going to base an industrial battle on the 1989 Aussie Dispute - of the 4 Airlines that were there at the start, only 1 (barely) remains today, Ansett.
East-West, IPEC, and Australian Airlines (TAA) were all so severely financially crippled that they ceased to operate - Australian (TAA) were amalgamated with QANTAS (to become QANTAS domestic), to enable cash to be injected more freely for survival.
CX would be utilising around the 5-7 crews per aircraft, then factoring in non-availability due to leave (recreation, and medical), recurrent training and licence renewal (simulator), conversion and upgrade training, etcetera. The 1600-odd number that SEAT 81A cites is total PILOT number - not CREW number.
[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]
And I don't believe any realistic management is going to base an industrial battle on the 1989 Aussie Dispute - of the 4 Airlines that were there at the start, only 1 (barely) remains today, Ansett.
East-West, IPEC, and Australian Airlines (TAA) were all so severely financially crippled that they ceased to operate - Australian (TAA) were amalgamated with QANTAS (to become QANTAS domestic), to enable cash to be injected more freely for survival.
CX would be utilising around the 5-7 crews per aircraft, then factoring in non-availability due to leave (recreation, and medical), recurrent training and licence renewal (simulator), conversion and upgrade training, etcetera. The 1600-odd number that SEAT 81A cites is total PILOT number - not CREW number.
[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lookout Mtn Tennessee
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the people they sacked are all "89ers...then good on them.who needs miserable rabble-rousers as pilots anyway...hope they are all blackballed by other carriers looking for pilots...most know them for what they are....
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lookout Mtn Tennessee
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Look boys it's like this...we are expats working as contract pilots...if it goes to crap..it's bad we all have families to feed, and bills to pay and futures too look forward to..we all know when we become expats, this is subject to the whim of some tosser running the airline...it SUCKS..but it's life..so fight as we must.."coz our cause it is just"..we have to realize that it may turn out bad...lets not fall into the same trap as those morons did in oz in'89, and lets not let those miserable loosers lead us down the same path to destruction they so blindly followed a few short years ago...capitulate???..NO...use our heads??? yes...lets save this airline from them...and ourselves.....
[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: Mapshift ]
[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: Mapshift ]
Guest
Posts: n/a
...........oh and Mr Mapshift, suggest you have a few little aggression problems to deal with. Just relax, take a deep breath and calm down young man, perhaps a little therapy - your posts will be far more eloquent then. Next time you're in Dublin go and have a Guiness, that always works wonders.
"Morons" Losers, no sorry "Loosers"...jeez, well thought out stuff though - keep it coming eh!
"Morons" Losers, no sorry "Loosers"...jeez, well thought out stuff though - keep it coming eh!
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Nirvana
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Tommy, the barstards have been doing it all their lives, selling out to Management, dumping on anybody that is in their way, trading their grandmothers/mothers/daughters for a quick gain here and there.
Mapshift and co., don't know integrity if it bit them on the arse'ol. They would prefer to be in the industrial revolution days of despotic little management snitching shivers, looking for a spine to run up.
He's obviously a company stooge, and you can bet he's got something to gain.
Meanwhile chaps, keep up the good work. Don't worry, I won't send in the airforce this time.
[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: Bob Hawke ]
Mapshift and co., don't know integrity if it bit them on the arse'ol. They would prefer to be in the industrial revolution days of despotic little management snitching shivers, looking for a spine to run up.
He's obviously a company stooge, and you can bet he's got something to gain.
Meanwhile chaps, keep up the good work. Don't worry, I won't send in the airforce this time.
[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: Bob Hawke ]
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Gods Country
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Remember that 4 of the sacked pilots are Union committee members, in some cases part of the negotiating team. With that in mind,how can there be any sort of negotiated amicable end to this dispute? Where is the exit door for either side? 
Chief PPRuNe Pilot
Just a shot accross the bows! Before those of you who are incapable of keeping a debate, even a heated one such as this, from disintegrating into a pathetic brawl get too carried away remember that those with opposing views to your own have as much right to air them as you do yours.
You all know who you are and if you think that slagging one person off just because they hold a different or opposing view to your own will get you anywhere then you had better wake up and get a reality check! You may not like what people like 411a have to say but remember that there are many other people out there who have the same views but are not prepared to make them public. Just jumping in and trying to be clever by 'outing' these people on here or even worse, just using pathetic ranting to try and knock them down isn't going to work.
Grow up and realise that the only way to make a point is to use reasoned argument. If it gets a bit heated then stop and count to ten before continuing. There is nothing more pathetic than watching someone 'lose it' in an argument by resrting to name calling and hysterical screaming!
If there were no people out there that disagreed with what this topic is all about then there wouldn't be a debate and there probably wouldn't be any industrial action in HK. Act your ages and get it through your heads that the only way to convice anyone that you are right is to put forward a proper and well thought out argument. Calling someone petty names shows you to be sad and a loser.
If you are incapable of debating the points then please find another forum.
You all know who you are and if you think that slagging one person off just because they hold a different or opposing view to your own will get you anywhere then you had better wake up and get a reality check! You may not like what people like 411a have to say but remember that there are many other people out there who have the same views but are not prepared to make them public. Just jumping in and trying to be clever by 'outing' these people on here or even worse, just using pathetic ranting to try and knock them down isn't going to work.
Grow up and realise that the only way to make a point is to use reasoned argument. If it gets a bit heated then stop and count to ten before continuing. There is nothing more pathetic than watching someone 'lose it' in an argument by resrting to name calling and hysterical screaming!
If there were no people out there that disagreed with what this topic is all about then there wouldn't be a debate and there probably wouldn't be any industrial action in HK. Act your ages and get it through your heads that the only way to convice anyone that you are right is to put forward a proper and well thought out argument. Calling someone petty names shows you to be sad and a loser.
If you are incapable of debating the points then please find another forum.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: N/a, not earthbound!
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Capt PPrune,
You're quite right. My apologies to anyone who may have been offended by my previous posting. (that'll probably be the non-ignorant and non-loudmouthed variety of American) :o
You're quite right. My apologies to anyone who may have been offended by my previous posting. (that'll probably be the non-ignorant and non-loudmouthed variety of American) :o
. DOnt' give up mate (and the other 51). You'll be back soon.