Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Crash at Sharjah airport

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Crash at Sharjah airport

Old 4th Nov 2009, 07:48
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cloud 9
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The B707 lost in the Lusaka crash (14 May 1977) was G-BEBP, operated on charter as a freighter, by Dan-Air. It was originally delivered to PanAm as N765PA.......is that the same accident you are referring to,411A?
point8six is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2009, 10:50
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
...is that the same accident you are referring to,411A?
Yup, that's the one....original PanAmerican airplane.
411A is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2009, 10:58
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Age: 83
Posts: 3,788
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Yes, but it had absolutely nothing to do with PanAm when it crashed.

Incidentally, I have flown with the brother of the captain who died in the accident - nice chap.
JW411 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2009, 11:40
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 3,093
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm having a rare "can-sort-of-see-where-411A-is-coming-from" moment, in the sense that the 707 leased by Dan-Air Cargo in that accident was built to PA's specifications, given that there was a lot of variation between airline specifications for the type at the time (as mentioned earlier in the thread).

We're getting off-topic here. I do wonder how much fatigue damage and wear and tear the shiny new paint job on this aircraft was covering though.
DozyWannabe is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2009, 14:02
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: EGSS
Posts: 943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The AD for the stab involved removing the stab, honing the attachment lugs and rebushing if i remember rightly. Along with new attach bolts.
Flightmech is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2009, 15:20
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As for the cowling's, I am aware of one incident at STN when a set of engine cowling's departed a 707. One half was was found near the runway & the other by a man walking his dog near Ongar (probably 20 miles away). The crew were unaware & had to be persuaded to return by ATC.
The latches, especially on the lower inboard engines could be missed on a walk around & the cowling's fitted flush even when unlatched.
I would be surprised if this accident was caused by a simple cowling departure.
GAZIN is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2009, 17:01
  #147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: south africa
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
B707 cowlings

B707 with the Stage 2 Hush kits (TRACOR) have 2 straps holding the two cowlings together and its hard not to see them not secured during a walk around. The B707 in question was not fitted with Stage 2 hush kits.
four engine jock is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2009, 19:12
  #148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The B707 in question was not fitted with Stage 2 hush kits.
How do you know...specifically?
411A is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2009, 23:06
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The latest photo's on Jetphotos.net, taken in May this year show it without hush kits.
GAZIN is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2009, 00:13
  #150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The latest photo's...
So, where are they...?
411A is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2009, 03:59
  #151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ST-AKW

Try here JetPhotos.Net Aviation Photos: ST-AKW
limelight is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2009, 04:50
  #152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yup, no hushkits....looks like to me, anyway.
411A is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2009, 06:05
  #153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Romeo 14
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Excellent, at last some conversation about this accident.
I can NOT believe that there is no "did you hear?"s coming out of the gulf. Back in the day if BA bent a uld dollie in DXB, the entire ground staff of EK would know "all about it" in SHJ less than 48 hrs later. G*d forbid you bend some tin or cause an actual loss.
To those of us who still frequent the area,,, "inquiring minds want to know", lol. Most rumours have a basis in fact, warped by the unfamiliar usually,, but still.

My position is that loose cowling did not cause this birds fall. I cannot come up with a scenario in which a loose cowl is un-noticed,, stays attached after rotation,, causes terminal and unrecoverable damage somewhere around 300-500 ft agl,, and floats harmlessly back to the runway,, on runway heading.. Killing a healthy aircraft(?) and skilled crew(?).
What the hell is the speck seen on the tape? Someone in the gulf is not sharing with the other kids.
If it is cowling,, more interesting would be what CAUSED it to depart the fix,, and perhaps take a few leading edge devices with it.

Either that,, or I'm wrong. It's casual,, I'm actually getting a little used to being wrong.
--Heracles
Heracles is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2009, 10:09
  #154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Heracles,

Just for you, the latest rumour that I have heard refers to the crew reporting an engine "lost" after takeoff. It is unclear whether this means simply a dead engine or no longer physically present.

More as it comes.......
Guy D'ageradar is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2009, 16:00
  #155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germany
Age: 67
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi,

For those who watched the video provided some posts above .. they certainly seen a "thing" falling from the sky (the plane is no more visible at time)
Many can suppose or assume this "thing" was a part of the plane.
As the event occured not over a impenetrable jungle but instead over a sand carpet .. this "thing" is in the hand of investigators from some hours after the accident.
Wonder why the info about this "thing" not yet leaked somewhere.
Certainly they keep the info secret for make growing rumours on this forum
jcjeant is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2009, 04:28
  #156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Many years back a DC8 was departing a NYC airport and crashed on take-off. Seems debris (a stone?) probably 'kicked' up got caught at the hinge point on the elevator and jammed it in the up position. Forward input on the yoke could do nothing.
I wonder?
blowtorch is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2009, 05:04
  #157 (permalink)  
PJ2
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: BC
Age: 76
Posts: 2,484
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
411A, can you see the outboards from the cockpit?, (doubt if you can see the inboards)...might go the comment about physically losing the engine. Frankly, I don't think a crew would know that an engine was off the airplane even with the different handling characteristics.

PJ2
PJ2 is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2009, 06:32
  #158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
411A, can you see the outboards from the cockpit?, (doubt if you can see the inboards)...
Yes, inboards just visable....outboards, in clear view.
411A is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2009, 11:57
  #159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Does anyone have more information about the cargo load?
skytrax is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2009, 16:48
  #160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: At home, occasionally
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Those cowlings....

......Nobody appears to be exactly sure what fell off this aircraft.

Meanwhile.....

QUOTE:
As for the cowling's, I am aware of one incident at STN when a set of engine cowling's departed a 707. One half was was found near the runway & the other by a man walking his dog near Ongar (probably 20 miles away). The crew were unaware & had to be persuaded to return by ATC.
The latches, especially on the lower inboard engines could be missed on a walk around & the cowling's fitted flush even when unlatched.
I would be surprised if this accident was caused by a simple cowling departure.
-----------------------------------------

I know a little about losing outboard cowlings (only), and I can vouch for one instance involving outboard cowlings that departed without damaging the stabilizer or anything else of immediate importance. I seem to remember there are about five 'over centre to lock' type latches along the underside. In the case I refer to, both the Station Engineer and the Flight Engineer had positively checked the latches on the pre-flight walk-around. One only, was later proved unmade when visually checked and flush. I'm possibly wrong, but maybe there are inspection holes at each latch?

The aircraft was G-ATZC, a 707-365, and operating a scheduled cargo service LUN NBO on 06MAR72. An Internet search just now indicates it was originally delivered to Airlift International as N737AL.

The #4 engine cowlings separated shortly after V2. There was a manageable yaw. I was in the right hand seat, and when I glanced right the outboard engine's inboard cowling appeared to have rotated clockwise - maybe something like 45 degrees. It was around the same moment that the tower informed us that something had already fallen off. I can't remember at what point the second cowling went, but it wasn't long because later we found it in the grass on, or close to the airfield. I'm guessing it went over the top and it later turned out to have missed the stabilizer.

We didn't need to dump. The engine was shut down due fire protection compromised, and we landed back to check condition. Strange to relate, the cowlings were soon retrieved and beaten back to shape by some skilled locally based Italian engineers. Once re-fitted and permanently secured with metal straps, my logbook shows that we were on our way to Nairobi once more around six hours later.

Last edited by ONE GREEN AND HOPING; 9th Nov 2009 at 12:54.
ONE GREEN AND HOPING is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.