Airtours to take on Temp Airbus Pilots
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skyvoyager
Apologies, should have explained:
Air2K pilot management want to take guys back but are not being allowed to by First Choice board who are saying make do with what you have. The Crew Council belief last October was that the board were trying to change the airline into something like the Airtours model, crew for winter, surge for summer with wet lease or temporary contract. It may well be that there will be more redundacies at the end of this summer to complete the change to winter model.
Apologies, should have explained:
Air2K pilot management want to take guys back but are not being allowed to by First Choice board who are saying make do with what you have. The Crew Council belief last October was that the board were trying to change the airline into something like the Airtours model, crew for winter, surge for summer with wet lease or temporary contract. It may well be that there will be more redundacies at the end of this summer to complete the change to winter model.
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The reason for the temporary crew is uncertainty over next winters requirements so an unwillingness to recruit permanantly as yet. The airline was about 20 FO's short but is using extra Skyservice aircraft this summer. . .I would have thought that anyone in on a seasonal contract this year would be a good bet for permanant employment when recruitment starts.
Airtours made nobody redundant after Sep 11 (retirement or otherwise) - they only flew 70% of their work.
Don't knock it - do you see anybody else recruiting?
Airtours made nobody redundant after Sep 11 (retirement or otherwise) - they only flew 70% of their work.
Don't knock it - do you see anybody else recruiting?
In the US, a retired (from twenty years active duty, a few with eighteen or so) Lt. Col or Navy/Coast Guard Commander etc receives a modest, but steady paycheck and often is hired by major or smaller airlines: many have paid for type ratings. i.e. Southwest, Airtran, Midway, maybe Jetblue... Some might not need permanent flying, depending on a spouse's paycheck, for example.
A FEDEX Airbus (300) Captain told me a few years ago after I jumpseated on his plane, that some retired military pilots he had worked with at his company had stated that they would almost fly for nothing. Even if an airline has a "B-scale", they are much better off financially than civilian pilots in their new-hire class. Mr. Fred Smith ("Mr. FEDEX") was somehow listening.
What do those pilot attitudes do for present/future industry-level salaries and for pilots who are rooted in one place with a family? Some pilots with a second income don't need a competitive airline salary: what perfect robots/ignorant suckers to order around (and with no civilian experience-what a bonus for mgmt).
[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]</p>
A FEDEX Airbus (300) Captain told me a few years ago after I jumpseated on his plane, that some retired military pilots he had worked with at his company had stated that they would almost fly for nothing. Even if an airline has a "B-scale", they are much better off financially than civilian pilots in their new-hire class. Mr. Fred Smith ("Mr. FEDEX") was somehow listening.
What do those pilot attitudes do for present/future industry-level salaries and for pilots who are rooted in one place with a family? Some pilots with a second income don't need a competitive airline salary: what perfect robots/ignorant suckers to order around (and with no civilian experience-what a bonus for mgmt).
[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]</p>
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BigRab the Canadian Pilots and A/c to which you refer are a part of the Airtours (MyTravel) group. I believe they are now MyTravel Airways(Canada).
However, I also do not think that it is right that they are coming over here to fly UK routes when ther are so many UK pilots who would kill for the jobs.
However, I also do not think that it is right that they are coming over here to fly UK routes when ther are so many UK pilots who would kill for the jobs.
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Bus Boy,. .Unless there has been a recent change Skyservice Canada only has a service agreement with MyTravel Group plc and are not part of the group in terms of ownership.. .This may well be due to Canadian government ownership by foriegners rules.. .Those similar protectionist rules seem to be far more restrictive on UK or EU pilots being allowed to work in Canada than appears to be the reciprical case.. .I couldn't care less where the airframe is registered but I do question the ethics of employing no EU Citizens at a time when there are probably many suitably qualified EU citezens out of work.. .Now of course if there was equal reciprical rights that would be more acceptable, but as I see it the chances of EU citizens working in Canada (or US are pretty slim). .Unless of course you know different?. .It may of course make sound economic sense for MYT to operate this way, and may well be in the interests of its share holders and possibly staff, but that is a different issue.
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the Airtours - Skyservice agreement works both ways and thus benefits Airtours in that they can lease SSV A320's for short haul work, whilst agreeing to take the SSV A330 for winter work, when the A330 would otherwise be out of work.
What must be remembered here is that as mentiond earlier, Airtours havent laid off any pilots. One reason for this is good management of the AIH fleet size, ensuring 100% utilisation all year round. This Is achieved through leasing and sub-chartering of other aircraft for AIH flights and this includes the Skyservice A330's and A320's.
Sure, it would be nice if British crews could fly C-reg aircraft and so on, but we cant have everything can we.
I personally would not like to be looking for work in Canada at the moment, those guys are having a rough time on the jobs front.
What must be remembered here is that as mentiond earlier, Airtours havent laid off any pilots. One reason for this is good management of the AIH fleet size, ensuring 100% utilisation all year round. This Is achieved through leasing and sub-chartering of other aircraft for AIH flights and this includes the Skyservice A330's and A320's.
Sure, it would be nice if British crews could fly C-reg aircraft and so on, but we cant have everything can we.
I personally would not like to be looking for work in Canada at the moment, those guys are having a rough time on the jobs front.
Sapco2: I attempted to describe only the situation whereby many US airlines, regional, national or major (cargo and pax), have been glad to hire retired military pilots, who don't rely on an airline paycheck for their total income. And by the way, I have so far been glad to have worked with any and all who have been paired with me as my FO. This applies just as much to all of my FOs, male and female, with only civilian backgrounds. Luckily, neither the retired fighter/attack/recce or trainer/transport/tanker/heavy bomber pilots are bothered by initially flying here several years as First Officer.
By highlighting only a (very?) small fraction of such pilots, who seem not to need or expect industry-level pay for work at US airlines for industry-level responsibilities and workload, which they enjoy anyway, this was not intended as any type of generalization.
Good luck with the job market over there, anywhere.
By highlighting only a (very?) small fraction of such pilots, who seem not to need or expect industry-level pay for work at US airlines for industry-level responsibilities and workload, which they enjoy anyway, this was not intended as any type of generalization.
Good luck with the job market over there, anywhere.
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Good luck to you all.... .. .Ive always said when i qualify i want to work for Airtours. Fantastic airline and obviously well managed.....just makes me want to work for them even more!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />
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Interested to know what the final T&C were?. .. .We who were made redundant from Air2bob and are being offered Summer contracts have been told: mid-May to Mid-October, one month notice either way, no leave, no company pension contributions but a £2500 gift in place at the end of the contract. I appreciate this is a better offer than no offer and better than some guys will get fullstop but are these T&C to become an industry norm or are we being taken advantage of? BTW what is BALPA doing for you?
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Rock and Hard Place,. .. .It looks like your log in name is extremely apt. I notice that it is a new name and can only hope that you have reason to change it to something more upbeat in the future.. .. .I cannot talk for the Airtours contract and it is sad that no-one has replied to your heartfelt plea. Therefore I will try to answer your questions on temporary contracts: You don't say how much you are being offered (and frankly why should you) but unless it is significantly more than your previous pay, I suspect that you are being taken advantage of. Contract pay should take into account the fact that you have to live off it for longer than the contract itself. You mentioned pension provision, there is also health and licence insurance to look after all year. The fact that you will have no leave, unlike the permanent guys, means that the company are already getting a few weeks for free as it is. You can't expect to get a year's pay in 6 months but the company should not expect to get you for the same rate as the permanent employers are paid and certainly not for less. You may get more of an insight, and an idea of the going rate at <a href="http://www.cockpitforum.com." target="_blank">www.cockpitforum.com.</a>. .. .However, the rate at the end of the day is a question of supply and demand which isn't in your favour at the moment. Back to a rock and hard place!. .. .As for it becoming the industry norm, that will depend on BALPA. Enough said I think.. .. .No it's not! They will gladly take their cut of your pay but will they earn it? I suspect (and I do hope I am wrong) that you will not be looked after by the company reps as you are no longer employed by the company. I expect that if BALPA have been contacted they will have said yippee for a few temporary jobs (and more money for them) and not looked at T&C for temporary contracts. BALPA please tell me that I am wrong and that you have looked after Rock and Hard Place and his colleagues and got them what they deserve.