GO NOW OWNED KY KLM?
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Bye Bye Barbara... its back to BA you go...
And what happens to the rest of the office staff? And all those overpaid directors?
Does anyone know what the morale in the office is like now... I presume its pretty bad! At least the pilots are still needed! Have many jumped ship yet?
How many came from KLMuk in the first place? Do they want to go back?
And what happens to the rest of the office staff? And all those overpaid directors?
Does anyone know what the morale in the office is like now... I presume its pretty bad! At least the pilots are still needed! Have many jumped ship yet?
How many came from KLMuk in the first place? Do they want to go back?
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Yo copenhagen morale is good, don't worry be happy, Go will still be next year, its the Buzz people who had better start to think
what happens to their seniority when Buzz becomes GO. Remember Go are making a PROFIT
are BUZZ?
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Not all those who wander are lost;
Guest
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Gollum Don’t forget that Go didn’t make profits in its first few years of operations. Are Go in profit now ?
Flap40 you are correct that the Crew and most if not all the Ground staff are employed by KLMuk. As there is very little direct competition between the two airlines, ( Only two routes I Believe ) It is most likely things will just carry on the same with a gradual merge of the two Airlines. As to the eventual name is any ones guess, but as Buzz was thought up by KLM I personally would bet on that. As far as seniority is concerned, that’s easy. If Go and KLMuk do combine, Go chaps end up at the bottom of our seniority list. After all KLMuk have a very strict Last In First Out agreement. Keep Smiling and be happy.
Flap40 you are correct that the Crew and most if not all the Ground staff are employed by KLMuk. As there is very little direct competition between the two airlines, ( Only two routes I Believe ) It is most likely things will just carry on the same with a gradual merge of the two Airlines. As to the eventual name is any ones guess, but as Buzz was thought up by KLM I personally would bet on that. As far as seniority is concerned, that’s easy. If Go and KLMuk do combine, Go chaps end up at the bottom of our seniority list. After all KLMuk have a very strict Last In First Out agreement. Keep Smiling and be happy.
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Go pay more than KLM UK quite a bit more.
Its a pilots market right now. Unless, that is, KLM were to merge the two airlines and reduce the overall size in line with business predictions.
Lets suppose that the takover happens and they decide to reduce capacity. KLM can establish their required crewing levels whilst making the bottom of the seniority list redundant. This reduces the leverage of the Go pilots who wouldn't want to join KLM on their [lower] pay scales.
KLM proved adept at imposing new working conditions on Air UK.
Its a simple tactic - We'll close the airline down if we don't get our way.
I am being devils advocate here I hasten to add. Speculation based on years in the industry.
If I was in Go I would hope for a management buyout backed by 3iii.
Its a pilots market right now. Unless, that is, KLM were to merge the two airlines and reduce the overall size in line with business predictions.
Lets suppose that the takover happens and they decide to reduce capacity. KLM can establish their required crewing levels whilst making the bottom of the seniority list redundant. This reduces the leverage of the Go pilots who wouldn't want to join KLM on their [lower] pay scales.
KLM proved adept at imposing new working conditions on Air UK.
Its a simple tactic - We'll close the airline down if we don't get our way.
I am being devils advocate here I hasten to add. Speculation based on years in the industry.
If I was in Go I would hope for a management buyout backed by 3iii.
Guest
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Seems a little ironic that BA, as far as we know, have not yet sold "GO" , and yet they are out shopping and buy another airline to replace one that they already own!
OK.... . I know British Regional is a
different beast but whats that phrase ,
..." money burning a hole in one's pocket
"
OK.... . I know British Regional is a
different beast but whats that phrase ,
..." money burning a hole in one's pocket
"
Guest
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Ok lets look at all the points here
Minimas Go are heading for and are on target to make a Profit at the end of this year
I am not knocking Buzz here but the Go brand is stronger in the publics mind than Buzz (imho)the Boss man at KLM has stated that without the buyout/merger with Go Buzz may be folded (FT yesterday) if KLM do not aquire Go Go will not fold.
With Pay scales I am not in a position to comment but I can see it being a minefield.
WigWag i think the reason the Go have made a profit this year is pushing ahead with the route growth what would be the point in reducing it now.another point you make about tactics.any old AirUk people out there will remember the way it used to be "one happy family all working together" destroyed by the an atmosphere of fear, that family atmosphere that used to be in AirUk is now present in GO and I think all the ex KLMUK people who now work for GO would agree.
If Buzz and Go dont merge I am confident that Go will continue to grow i can only hope the same for BUZZ..Be happy don't worry
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Not all those who wander are lost;
Minimas Go are heading for and are on target to make a Profit at the end of this year
I am not knocking Buzz here but the Go brand is stronger in the publics mind than Buzz (imho)the Boss man at KLM has stated that without the buyout/merger with Go Buzz may be folded (FT yesterday) if KLM do not aquire Go Go will not fold.
With Pay scales I am not in a position to comment but I can see it being a minefield.
WigWag i think the reason the Go have made a profit this year is pushing ahead with the route growth what would be the point in reducing it now.another point you make about tactics.any old AirUk people out there will remember the way it used to be "one happy family all working together" destroyed by the an atmosphere of fear, that family atmosphere that used to be in AirUk is now present in GO and I think all the ex KLMUK people who now work for GO would agree.
If Buzz and Go dont merge I am confident that Go will continue to grow i can only hope the same for BUZZ..Be happy don't worry
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Not all those who wander are lost;
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Interesting times ahead i think, the Go pilots have a larger basic salary but lack other benefits such as final salary pension, £100,000 loss of license, free car parking, private health care etc. Perhaps if the two companies were to merge the two pilot workforces should ask for Go salary scales with KLM benefits?
There is however another rumor spreading around that it is the intention to merge just Buzz and Go together, the KLMuk side is to merged with KLM cityhopper. In other words the final break up and disposal of what was the old Air uk.
edited for bad spelling!!!
[This message has been edited by driver1 (edited 10 March 2001).]
There is however another rumor spreading around that it is the intention to merge just Buzz and Go together, the KLMuk side is to merged with KLM cityhopper. In other words the final break up and disposal of what was the old Air uk.
edited for bad spelling!!!
[This message has been edited by driver1 (edited 10 March 2001).]
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Cityhopper pilots have 'rights' to KLM mainline (after 4 years service), and notional KLM seniority.
I would say the Dutch pilots union, the VNV would be very anti such a merger.
Plus KLMuk is very cheap for KLM, the Dutch employment laws make it very expensive to employ Dutch pilots.
On the surface it makes total sense, same aircraft types, both feed AMS etc, interesting times ahead !
I would say the Dutch pilots union, the VNV would be very anti such a merger.
Plus KLMuk is very cheap for KLM, the Dutch employment laws make it very expensive to employ Dutch pilots.
On the surface it makes total sense, same aircraft types, both feed AMS etc, interesting times ahead !
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The latest from the FT at:
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pag...H7C&Collid=Any
Interesting to note that the management team is values by KLM and may be retained. Bodes well for a merger perhaps?
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pag...H7C&Collid=Any
Interesting to note that the management team is values by KLM and may be retained. Bodes well for a merger perhaps?
Guest
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Very interesting article wig wag!
Interesting that Babs says she is keen to work with the new owner and klm say that they admire the existing team at Go, sounds like the deal is done to me!! I have heard that Babs has been seen at the KLmuk hq (bendover house) alot recently!!
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It would seem to bode well for Go at this time.
If KLM gets out of the low cost market Go would stand better as a (just) profitable airline with reduced competition and backed by 3i who now what they are doing. If KLM buys Go then that is because they view taking market share in low cost airline tickets as profitable. There is certainly a lot of capacity to take up in the low cost market.
What is encouraging, and I speak as a pilot, is that Go's management have stood out as a valuable asset. Companies these days (in any sector) just cannot afford weak management practices.
A big plus is Stansted which must be a better airport for a low cost airline than Luton.
I'll take view here that Go will eventually be a strong player. Perhaps Buzz will be merged into Go trading on a stronger brand.
What I do hope for is that the pilots get merged properly. I.E on good deals with amicable relationships.
If KLM gets out of the low cost market Go would stand better as a (just) profitable airline with reduced competition and backed by 3i who now what they are doing. If KLM buys Go then that is because they view taking market share in low cost airline tickets as profitable. There is certainly a lot of capacity to take up in the low cost market.
What is encouraging, and I speak as a pilot, is that Go's management have stood out as a valuable asset. Companies these days (in any sector) just cannot afford weak management practices.
A big plus is Stansted which must be a better airport for a low cost airline than Luton.
I'll take view here that Go will eventually be a strong player. Perhaps Buzz will be merged into Go trading on a stronger brand.
What I do hope for is that the pilots get merged properly. I.E on good deals with amicable relationships.
Guest
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Hmmm...., people seem to have short memories - a recent quote (earlier on in this thread) from the CEO of KLM, seemed to suggest that they would not be requiring GO's management - now they say they will retain it !
"We would bring in our Buzz investment and know how to manage the group. There are enough management resources without Go," said Mr van Wijk.
[This message has been edited by buzz driver (edited 10 March 2001).]
"We would bring in our Buzz investment and know how to manage the group. There are enough management resources without Go," said Mr van Wijk.
[This message has been edited by buzz driver (edited 10 March 2001).]
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A few comments as a bystander to the grand debate.
I'm led to believe that BA is not negotiating directly with KLM re Go. What I have a sneaking feeling is going on is this. 3i are negotiating with both BA for Go and with KLM about Buzz with a view to buying both, amalgamating the businesses under 3i ownership and then seeking a stock market flotation for it in due course.
This would allow the businesses to take out any duplication of their route networks; achieve some economies of scale in admin, advertising and operations and have a much stronger route network, thereby improving the presence of whichever brand they choose to retain. It does make some sense.
As to the management debate, personally, I do think some actions by Go's management in the initial phase of the company's operations contributed heavily to the losses in the first two years. These were primarily of a commercial nature (poor route selection, low aircraft utilisation, extensive & costly nightstops away from base) but these have, by and large, been corrected. Whether those mistakes could have been avoided in the first place is another issue. Buzz have, at least, managed to avoid those errors and I think some credit is due to its management for that alone.
I'm led to believe that BA is not negotiating directly with KLM re Go. What I have a sneaking feeling is going on is this. 3i are negotiating with both BA for Go and with KLM about Buzz with a view to buying both, amalgamating the businesses under 3i ownership and then seeking a stock market flotation for it in due course.
This would allow the businesses to take out any duplication of their route networks; achieve some economies of scale in admin, advertising and operations and have a much stronger route network, thereby improving the presence of whichever brand they choose to retain. It does make some sense.
As to the management debate, personally, I do think some actions by Go's management in the initial phase of the company's operations contributed heavily to the losses in the first two years. These were primarily of a commercial nature (poor route selection, low aircraft utilisation, extensive & costly nightstops away from base) but these have, by and large, been corrected. Whether those mistakes could have been avoided in the first place is another issue. Buzz have, at least, managed to avoid those errors and I think some credit is due to its management for that alone.
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Quote from Wig Wag "A big plus is Stansted which must be a better airport for a low cost airline than Luton"
Can't really agree with that statement. For a true low cost airline a big consideration must me the turnaround time. Faster turnarounds mean more rotations. The problem for Stansted is that it is a victim of its own success with long queues for takeoff and landings at peak periods. This is one reason why easyjet will always remain at Luton despite their constant winging. Luton also has a far bigger catchment area that extends up into the Midlands. Have you every tried to get from Coventry or Birmingham to Stansted.
Can't really agree with that statement. For a true low cost airline a big consideration must me the turnaround time. Faster turnarounds mean more rotations. The problem for Stansted is that it is a victim of its own success with long queues for takeoff and landings at peak periods. This is one reason why easyjet will always remain at Luton despite their constant winging. Luton also has a far bigger catchment area that extends up into the Midlands. Have you every tried to get from Coventry or Birmingham to Stansted.