BA to get 30% rise
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BA to get 30% rise
OK, 
so it'd be nice - but will it happen?
I heard the other day that this sort of figure will be pushed for by Balpa - but it depends on what Luftie and others get.
Now before people start slagging me/us off for earning too much anyway let me explain that I am now - after 4 years with BA - just about taking home what I did as a 3 year FO with the 'tourists' in 1997
There are people earning considerably more and some earning less (cadets).
Rather than a 30% across the board rise a better (for me
) solution would be to give an enhanced rise to the lowly scum and less to those nearer the surface of the pond. 
What do think guys? Should BALPA be chasing a straight percentage or a 'staged' rise?
I flew with a Balpa rep the other day and he said the feeling was definitely strong enough from the junior ranks to go for industrial action
but thought the more senior (i.e. about to retire ) guys are sitting pretty and couldn't be bothered to support us.
How did the guys at Luftie garner enough support for their action?
ATB,
Underdog
ps just found out how smileys work
so it'd be nice - but will it happen?I heard the other day that this sort of figure will be pushed for by Balpa - but it depends on what Luftie and others get.
Now before people start slagging me/us off for earning too much anyway let me explain that I am now - after 4 years with BA - just about taking home what I did as a 3 year FO with the 'tourists' in 1997
There are people earning considerably more and some earning less (cadets).
Rather than a 30% across the board rise a better (for me
) solution would be to give an enhanced rise to the lowly scum and less to those nearer the surface of the pond. What do think guys? Should BALPA be chasing a straight percentage or a 'staged' rise?
I flew with a Balpa rep the other day and he said the feeling was definitely strong enough from the junior ranks to go for industrial action
but thought the more senior (i.e. about to retire ) guys are sitting pretty and couldn't be bothered to support us.How did the guys at Luftie garner enough support for their action?
ATB,
Underdogps just found out how smileys work
Guest
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I am not a pilot. I no longer work. But:
"Now before people start slagging me/us off for earning too much anyway let me explain that I am now - after 4 years with BA - just about taking home what I did as a 3 year FO with the 'tourists' in 1997"
i) Did you know the rules when you applied?
ii) If so, why did you apply?
It's a free country, and anyone can apply for any job they are qualified for. So what is the problem?
Most people aren't pilots, and most people earn less than those who are pilots. I have no problem with that, but will the pilots who leave one job for another, and then don't like it when they get there, please look elsewhere for sympathy?
"Now before people start slagging me/us off for earning too much anyway let me explain that I am now - after 4 years with BA - just about taking home what I did as a 3 year FO with the 'tourists' in 1997"
i) Did you know the rules when you applied?
ii) If so, why did you apply?
It's a free country, and anyone can apply for any job they are qualified for. So what is the problem?
Most people aren't pilots, and most people earn less than those who are pilots. I have no problem with that, but will the pilots who leave one job for another, and then don't like it when they get there, please look elsewhere for sympathy?
Guest
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Sorry, L337, you may be right. On the other hand, it is as well that the many posters to and readers of this site remember that there is a world out there in which lots of people earn more or less sod-all, and that those of us who are comfortably off might occasionally admit that we are among the lucky ones.
But good luck to the ones who make it - it's a bit of humility that I would like to see.
But good luck to the ones who make it - it's a bit of humility that I would like to see.
Guest
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Humility be damned! What I earn is nothing to do with anyone else. There are people much better off than me and people far worse off but that doesn't mean I shouldn't push for the best I can get just to protect the feelings of others!
As for the staged rise, I believe this is fairly close to BALPAs thinking, particularly as the results of the comparative pay study suggest this is where the major pay imbalances lie between us and out competitors. I don't believe you'll see much support from our long haul brethren so I suggest we reduce the FHR for all flights >6hrs and redistribute the savings to short haul crews who do the real work in the company. In terms of relative workload in the flying day I can't really see how the long haulers can justify the sums they earn whilst sleeping in the bunk! At least this would stir up some interest from them instead of the usual apathy!!!
Tin hat on!
As for the staged rise, I believe this is fairly close to BALPAs thinking, particularly as the results of the comparative pay study suggest this is where the major pay imbalances lie between us and out competitors. I don't believe you'll see much support from our long haul brethren so I suggest we reduce the FHR for all flights >6hrs and redistribute the savings to short haul crews who do the real work in the company. In terms of relative workload in the flying day I can't really see how the long haulers can justify the sums they earn whilst sleeping in the bunk! At least this would stir up some interest from them instead of the usual apathy!!!
Tin hat on!
Guest
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the inevitable conversation arose on the crew bus the other day . stdss when pilot pay rise mentioned stated oh well we should get a rise as well . this will be BA's defence .
whatever you do don't rob peter to pay paul we will all be paul or there abouts when our time comes alienate the senior guys and we're finished before we start .
ps I'm very cheap for the company in my role so no axe to grind
whatever you do don't rob peter to pay paul we will all be paul or there abouts when our time comes alienate the senior guys and we're finished before we start .
ps I'm very cheap for the company in my role so no axe to grind
Guest
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Good luck to you chaps. However, I doubt very much whether Balpa have the balls to push for 30%. They promised us lots of jam at Virgin earlier this year only to let us down badly when the time came to get tough.
You must make it absolutely clear to the likes of Mr Darke that you are unwilling to accept anything other than a substantial increase. We are falling behind everybody else - time to put a stop to the constant degradation of our packages.
You must make it absolutely clear to the likes of Mr Darke that you are unwilling to accept anything other than a substantial increase. We are falling behind everybody else - time to put a stop to the constant degradation of our packages.
Guest
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LPJ...."I am not a pilot. I no longer work. But:"......But in that case, what the hell are you doing in a 'Professional Pilots Network' and precisely why do you feel your opinion is wanted or welcome here in an area that is non of your business. There are too many loudmouths like you and Guvnor and some Bus-ground guy making uninformed and unwelcome comments in areas not of your concern! You are the weakest link....Goodbye!
[This message has been edited by Notso Fantastic (edited 29 May 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Notso Fantastic (edited 29 May 2001).]
Guest
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Likewise.
LPJ: your comments have no place here.
Underdog: come & join us in the BA forum where your observations have plenty of relevance
Anyone else: BA pilots are perfectly entitled, through the proper channels, to push for whatever payrise the market will stand. So there.
LPJ: your comments have no place here.
Underdog: come & join us in the BA forum where your observations have plenty of relevance
Anyone else: BA pilots are perfectly entitled, through the proper channels, to push for whatever payrise the market will stand. So there.
Guest
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I wish some of you would read the papers especially the business and appointments pages. You might then appreciate how crap pilot pay generally is eg "Cauldwell Communications looking for top graduates for fast track management scheme...starting salary £60,000..those who make it to Directorships £500,000pa"
That may be the top end but read the papers on any given day and you will find careers that many of us could or did pursue that pay far far more than any UK pilot is currently getting.
That may be the top end but read the papers on any given day and you will find careers that many of us could or did pursue that pay far far more than any UK pilot is currently getting.
Guest
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If BA can get their union ( oops, sorry, our
Union)to get them 30% then good luck to them.
They have been overpaid for years when the
various allowances are taken into account but
that perception is only true when taken into
account against other UK operators - the same
view cannot be held when viewed against the
world's major players - some of whom have
gone of course in part due to labour costs !
BALPA's recent performance in pay negotiations seems to have been little short
of pathetic especially when a newly gained
recognition means that subscriptions increase
thus reducing in part the benefit of any increase.
One of the problems facing BALPA and indeed
any other negotiating body is that we as a
group tend to be conservative (small 'c') by
nature. We are unlikely to go down the road
of industrial action unlike some of our
EU colleagues and as such we are seen as a
soft touch. Many are just so damn grateful to
have a job despite years of training and much
expense that they become sycophantic in their
attitudes to THE COMPANY.
So who is at fault ? The Companies want the
most for the least. BALPA are too concerned
with BA yet are themselves hindered by pilot
indifference. I don't pretend to have the
magic wander so where do we go from here ?
Union)to get them 30% then good luck to them.
They have been overpaid for years when the
various allowances are taken into account but
that perception is only true when taken into
account against other UK operators - the same
view cannot be held when viewed against the
world's major players - some of whom have
gone of course in part due to labour costs !
BALPA's recent performance in pay negotiations seems to have been little short
of pathetic especially when a newly gained
recognition means that subscriptions increase
thus reducing in part the benefit of any increase.
One of the problems facing BALPA and indeed
any other negotiating body is that we as a
group tend to be conservative (small 'c') by
nature. We are unlikely to go down the road
of industrial action unlike some of our
EU colleagues and as such we are seen as a
soft touch. Many are just so damn grateful to
have a job despite years of training and much
expense that they become sycophantic in their
attitudes to THE COMPANY.
So who is at fault ? The Companies want the
most for the least. BALPA are too concerned
with BA yet are themselves hindered by pilot
indifference. I don't pretend to have the
magic wander so where do we go from here ?
Guest
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not so fantastic how dare you slag jpj. he/she is perfectly entitiled to an opinion and many of our members are concerned about how they will be received in the wider community should we as pilots strike for a better pay rise than the others in our company. We have to explain our case better not slap down anybody who disagrees. Most of the cadets now too far down the road of a pilot career to change could have done many of the other careers around. Most of us had degrees from good universities. If we are now struggling to buy a house near our base in the southeast then we should argue that our career has not kept pace with others and we want to sort it out. But try to be nice about it because we have to work and live in these communities afterwards.
Guest
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I agree with Underdog - I joined BA as a DEP but took a hefty pay cut from a much smaller regional airline.
I threw away 6 years seniority and a good lifestyle to join BA in the hope conditions and pay would be better.
Conditions on mainline are good, roster stability is brilliant, but basic pay is cr*p.
I have plenty of friends who like me were messed around by BA for 2 years in the DEP hold pool (even re-interviewed) who when the offer eventually came turned BA down.
BA has a very arrogant attitude, they think they are better than everybody else, think pilots are queing up to join them, think they pay above average ......
BA will have to start offering qualified pilots something sensible if they hope to attract DEP's over the next few years ...
I threw away 6 years seniority and a good lifestyle to join BA in the hope conditions and pay would be better.
Conditions on mainline are good, roster stability is brilliant, but basic pay is cr*p.
I have plenty of friends who like me were messed around by BA for 2 years in the DEP hold pool (even re-interviewed) who when the offer eventually came turned BA down.
BA has a very arrogant attitude, they think they are better than everybody else, think pilots are queing up to join them, think they pay above average ......
BA will have to start offering qualified pilots something sensible if they hope to attract DEP's over the next few years ...
Guest
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