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EU to lift liquids ban in 2012......

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EU to lift liquids ban in 2012......

Old 1st Oct 2009, 21:11
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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You are kidding right?

An internal body scanner.

As a routine check? Just to get on an aeroplane?

Please tell me you are kidding?
There are similar scanners in operation at SVO/Moscow for quite some time now, 100% pax screened as a routine check.
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Old 1st Oct 2009, 21:17
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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A good post cargo/one, but I do wonder what the Russian machines can actually 'see'?

I know what the Smiths machines can achieve and they need to be installed worldwide ASAP.
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Old 2nd Oct 2009, 07:45
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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It sounds to me as though the Turks have realised the pointlessness of taking perfectly harmless liquids away from passengers. At their airports there is a security check going in to the airport, which can can prove annoying in the summer, especially if youre flying from a 'tourist' airport, as well as one pre boarding.

This latest development is worrying, I'm having nightmares over the extreme measures that are bound to be put in place! (Turn up at the airport and be quarantined for 3 days in order to pass whatever is in you - probably)
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Old 2nd Oct 2009, 09:01
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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I went through the Russian body scanner at Domodedovo a couple of weeks ago and found it to be a relatively pleasant experience which only took a few seconds. Stand on the two footprint marks on the floor, raise arms up, the door closes and then opens again almost immediately. No problem!
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Old 2nd Oct 2009, 11:44
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Dalaman

Turkey is not in the EU...

Belgium and Germany may be only two examples, so let me add some more:

France
Ireland
Netherlands
Spain
Portugal
Czech Republic

All of which I have flown from recently and had my liquids checked or in one case confiscated.

Don't over simplify things. EU liquids were introduced on back of UK ban to avoid confusion for passengers (or at least that was the thinking) - it is thanks to the UK that rules exist... they lobbied for and got the EU ban. No one likes it and maybe coming up with a plan to remove it isn't such a bad idea.

As for the UK applying the "full" rules, there is no such thing
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Old 2nd Oct 2009, 12:03
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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But the list of countries in the EU applying the liquids rules to pilots (this is a pilots' website) is as follows...

UK

I think people in the UK who don't get abroad much don't seem to realise this.

Last edited by hotmetal; 3rd Oct 2009 at 18:51.
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Old 2nd Oct 2009, 19:18
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Stand on the two footprint marks on the floor, raise arms up, the door closes and then opens again almost immediately. No problem!

Did the same at CLE recently,but I didn't realise it did an INTERNAL scan!
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Old 2nd Oct 2009, 19:49
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Shogan

Yes I know Turkey isn't in the EU, however I was sure that when travelling to the UK the UK rules applied. There were liquid restrictions information signs up in the airport.
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Old 3rd Oct 2009, 08:54
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Yep Turkey only enforces to the UK, USA and Isreal. Routed Manchester-Beirut via Istanbul and on the way out only a standard luggage scan for Beirut-bound pax, bottles of water allowed, bottles of wine, you name it. On the return leg UK-bound pax routed away to face the usual no-liquids farce.
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Old 5th Oct 2009, 21:53
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Dr. Stefan Schulte, Fraport AG's new executive board chairman, has presented the European Commission with a three-point package of demands for alleviating the burden faced by airports. Speaking to journalists in Brussels Wednesday, Schulte advocated the "complete abolition of regulations for liquids in carry-on baggage." However, he disapproved of any rushed and costly interim solutions regarding liquid restrictions. He said that it would be better to wait until new technologies are available that detect prohibited liquids in hand luggage.

Fraport is an airport management company which manages Frankfurt Airport in Germany, and others throughout Asia and the Middle East.

Schulte explained that the rationality of aviation-security regulations needed to be urgently examined. Ground processes, which account for 35 percent of the total operating costs of European airports, are as expensive and burdensome for a transfer airport like Frankfurt (FRA) as fuel costs are for the airlines. Before the 9/11 terror attacks the share of fixed costs amounted to between five and eight percent.

Schulte says the EU Commission's proposal for a directive on aviation security charges is incompatible with the new directive on airport fees, and does not address the central responsibility of the member states. Since the proposal's focus is on independent regulatory agencies and arbitration proceedings in cases of dispute, it does not address the States' ultimate responsibility for security matters, and safeguarding against acts of terror is in essence a sovereign duty of the State, he said. Schulte called on the members of the European Parliament to remain steadfast vis-a-vis the plans of the EU Commission - especially since the directive on charges was already amended only six months ago.

Fraport's CEO also voiced criticism on the revision of the EU slot allocation directive. As part of their legal obligation to operate the airport, airport companies must hold available an infrastructure that is open to all users during operating hours. The extremely high share of fixed costs requires an efficient and cost-effective use of airport capacities. No economy can or should afford idling capacities at major airports such as Frankfurt, which has faced an excess of demand for many years.

Therefore, Schulte called on the EU Commission to review the slot allocation directive. This directive should contain "clear and economically justifiable regulations for using the existing infrastructure as efficiently as possible".

Schulte stated that Frankfurt Airport is playing a pioneering role in sustainable growth and environmental responsibility." He pointed out his company's plans for expanding FRA in a carbon-neutral way and to reduce carbon emissions per traffic unit by 30 percent by the year 2020. Together with Munich, Frankfurt Airport was the first airport in Germany to introduce emissions-based airport charges at the beginning of 2008 for a multi-year test phase. Thus, FRA has also become a founding member of the Airport Carbon Accreditation (ACA) scheme, whereby European airports are committing themselves verifiably to reducing CO2 emissions and energy consumption.

In addition, Schulte underscored "Fraport's role model in the use of electric vehicles". Ten percent of Fraport's vehicle fleet runs on certified green electrical power. The first mass-produced electric vehicle available in Europe is currently undergoing the first major practical testing in Germany at Frankfurt Airport. Fraport plans to increase the share of electric vehicles in its fleet in the future.

In conclusion, Schulte described Fraport's Airport Expansion Program (AEP) as decisive for the future viability and competitiveness of Frankfurt Airport. It will also help the Frankfurt/Rhine-Main region to maintain its position as an "economic powerhouse in the European competition for attracting businesses." Expanding Germany's central air transportation hub is a task of national importance, stated Schulte.
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Old 6th Oct 2009, 01:31
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Did the UK "over react" regarding the threat of very loud bangs inside aircraft? Was it a case of either
1) Need to protect my pension so better make a safe decision?
2) As each committee reviewed the advice, they doubled the safety margin?

My suspicions are aroused about the likelihood of loud noise threat from recent flying experiences. Passed a couple of times out of Tel Aviv last month and they didn't seem bothered by liquids in the way that the UK are But the dates did invite an explanation....

Flew recently on domestic flights within Columbia and they weren't either.

However, you couldn't fault the x-raying of baggage and the scanning of the passengers in both countries. Very polite (yes, even Tel) but thorough. So do they know exactly what were they looking for and had they made a practical decision on what constitutes a risk?

Am a frequent passenger through LGW and can't claim they seem polite in the same way. Seems in the UK, the effort is directed at enforcing the letter of the law (and perhaps a bit of lording it over the very people who are "paying their wages"). Sad really.
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Old 6th Oct 2009, 08:06
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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3rd October 2009 10:54 reverserunlocked
Yep Turkey only enforces to the UK, USA and Isreal.
They were confiscating liquids at the entrance to the departure area at Anatalya, even those bought in duty free, which caused a few arguments.
The passengers were waiting to board 2 flights- one to Oslo and ours to Saarbrücken.
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Old 6th Oct 2009, 09:35
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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>>Quote:
Stand on the two footprint marks on the floor, raise arms up, the door closes and then opens again almost immediately. No problem!

Did the same at CLE recently,but I didn't realise it did an INTERNAL scan! <<

Does anybody know how it works; not the detail, for obvious security reasons, but is it an x-ray? If so, regular fliers (like crew) will be open to huge risks. I assume it doesn't do x-r but there is a trade off in trying to 'see' things inside you - most plastics/condoms, etc., won't show on less than x-r, which I think is why the Smith machine isn't widely implemented; not useful for drug carriers. Maybe it is a variation of the medical scans? then it is the cost that is holding it up.

Bye, Barry

P.S. who says the UK is the 'best' implenterof the rules? Evidence?
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Old 6th Oct 2009, 15:15
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Does anybody know how it works; not the detail, for obvious security reasons, but is it an x-ray?
It isnt top secret now, it was a few years ago

It uses "low power" microwaves and creates an image from their reflection and absorption.

A UK university has developed a portable version for police that does not produce an image like the airport scanners, instead it analyses the signal and calculates if there is a gun or knife on the subject. It apparently has a very useful standoff range.


Mickjoebill
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Old 6th Oct 2009, 18:19
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Somewhat related, but Helsinki Vantaa (EFHK, HEL) are removing their body scanner because people refuse to use it ... its colloquial name is the "naked scanner". There are also worries about the radiation dosage too (though it should be very low....)

fc101
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Old 6th Oct 2009, 21:10
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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I find it ridiculous that people get worried about how they are going to look on the "naked scanner". Just make sure that those viewing the images can't see the passengers "in the flesh" to correlate outward apprearance to their image and no-one will give a damn.
It can't be that different to security staff "eyeing up" or frisking passengers at present - and I doubt the viewers would give much of a damn about an image after they have seen the first few hundred.
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Old 7th Oct 2009, 07:47
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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I see that the French security are considering introducing these body scanners which I understand can identify liquids and chemicals stored internally.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6862247.ece
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Old 8th Oct 2009, 19:57
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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quote by reverserunlocked
Yep Turkey only enforces to the UK, USA and Isreal. Routed Manchester-Beirut via Istanbul and on the way out only a standard luggage scan for Beirut-bound pax, bottles of water allowed, bottles of wine, you name it. On the return leg UK-bound pax routed away to face the usual no-liquids farce.
It is this sort of piecemeal approach which ridicules the whole system.
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Old 8th Oct 2009, 21:13
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Did the same at CLE recently,but I didn't realise it did an INTERNAL scan!
There are different technologies. The "old" new screening technology which produces the "naked" image, and the "new" new screening technology which reveals the internal details. The "new" new is what they're discussing to counteract the internal hidden explosive device. You won't have been through one of these. The "old" new is what you would have gone through at CLE.
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Old 9th Oct 2009, 20:06
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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I also understand that the Health Protection Agency (UK) have approved use of the Smiths equipment.
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