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Eastern J32 Inpounded at ABZ ?

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Eastern J32 Inpounded at ABZ ?

Old 16th Apr 2001, 04:05
  #21 (permalink)  
Raw Data
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Talking

Yeah, yeah, I know, but I thought it might be an interesting story for the non-Brits!
 
Old 16th Apr 2001, 04:31
  #22 (permalink)  
Borg32
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1st Point - RATNERS
Gerald Ratner told this story of "selling over-priced crap" for over two years at various business seminars - this "fact" was used to illustrate good marketing over good product - why do we pay 100($150) for a pair of Calvin Klyne jeans? Tesco sell jeans for a tenner ($7) a pair - ergo CK have GOOD MARKETING.

2nd point - EASTERN

I suggest a good read of FT (Financial Times)or, telephone Companies House and do a "Search" on your "Target Company" (cost 15) - this information is open to anyone. You could also do a "Credit Search" (cost 15 from various credit companies) as a prospective "supplier of goods" this is legal and within your rights.

BAD CREDIT = uh-oh they need a paddle
GOOD CREDIT = it was all B*****KS

If you cannot read the information (which can be quite cryptic) ask your accountant to give it the once-over

32


 
Old 16th Apr 2001, 05:00
  #23 (permalink)  
Borg32
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***Missed one VITAL(legal)POINT****

When requesting information from a credit company - you are a prospective "Supplier of goods or SERVICES" - "services" being the keyword for a potential (employee) pilot of said company.

32
 
Old 16th Apr 2001, 05:19
  #24 (permalink)  
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AND...RAW DATA

The true facts surrounding the collaspe of RATNERS was more to do with it's borrowings to turnover(leverage) being nearly 5:1 as to the business norm of 2:1. Ultimately, global economic down-turn and over-stretching the company on new (leased)premises and diversing into areas unfamiliar to the management at that time, killed off RATNERS (and several airlines worldwide).

BAD WORDS do not kill companies.

BAD MANAGEMENT KILL COMPANIES.
32
 
Old 16th Apr 2001, 19:32
  #25 (permalink)  
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Borg32-

Yeah, yeah, whatever. Some interesting documentaries at the time, and Mr Ratner himself, all attributed the collapse of his empire to the loss of consumer confidence (according to the video of him saying so that I just checked). If you know better than he does, I bow to your superior knowledge. The idea was simply to make a point without getting too anal about the details.

Also, your last point is a bit of an oxymoron, as one usually leads to the other.
 
Old 16th Apr 2001, 22:56
  #26 (permalink)  
Borg32
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RAW DATA...

RATNERS - would you honestly like to go on record as saying "I'm a bit of a plonker, I knew I was stretching that overdraft at the bank" or, how about "it was'nt MY fault, the papers did it to me"

Oxymoron - Can you state one case of a company going belly up due to scare mongering alone? I think not.
Rumours usually have some substance behind them (Sacked employee dishes the dirt, shares being unloaded at an unusual rate) if not, they are quickly ignored or never taken seriously in the first place. Companies, individuals and fund managers usually rely on "the bottom line" and stewardship of a company (The Management team) to assertain their solvency. Do you use a different formula to come to a decision on a company? Please let me know what it is. Crystal balls? Tea leaves? What the bloke in the pub told you?

I say again. One does not lead to the other.

P.S.
Got any good share tips?

Regards
32

 
Old 17th Apr 2001, 01:13
  #27 (permalink)  
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Cool

Borg32- it isn't the scaremongering per se, it is the resultant erosion of confidence amongst suppliers that does the trick. It may simply push the airline over the edge, but if that is the case, my point stands. I know of at least one airline, that I used to work for, that died when a fuel company "heard" that we couldn't pay our bills and cut off the fuel supply. The rumour was wrong, but because the local fuel company manager believed it and acted accordingly, we were deader than a dodo in two days flat. There are several other points surrounding this that I don't care to share in public.

You are entitled to your opinion, I'll stick to mine thanks!!
 
Old 17th Apr 2001, 23:28
  #28 (permalink)  
Borg32
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RAW DATA...

Thank you for your reply, after reading your post, I can understand why you think this way.

I will close with this last piece,

2 DAYS AND BUST -

If your employer "went the way of the dodo"
after only 2 days, this should surely tell you they were severley over-strectched i.e - no money left in the pot. Any bank (and I do mean any bank) would up the O.D. for a company suffering "a short-term cash-flow" problem. I refer to a very recent case; A chemical company involved in animal testing, had 20 million overdraft with a certain hight street bank, lots of press coverage (banks dont like press coverage)loan was passed to U.S bank "on the nod" from first UK bank (U.S bank refuses to disclose its name!!) Banks like companies (any company, even those involved with disgusting acts of cruelty) if they are profitable.

Believe me, if your outfit was solvent and profitable, your bank would back you to the hilt, its how they make money.

On this point I refer to my other post, there must have been some truth to the rumour.

RAW DATA....its been nice chatting with you, but I feel we will have to agree to disagree.

Best Wishes

32

 
Old 18th Apr 2001, 02:53
  #29 (permalink)  
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Just a quick further explanation Borg32.

Once the fuel company stopped delivering, we looked at refuelling away from base, but of course aviation is a small world, and the word was out. Before too long (about two hours), caterers, ground handling and the airport all wanted monies owed them (none of which was overdue BTW). The next thing that happened was that travel agents stopped booking and our forward reservations dried up. Many pax re-booked with other airlines after a news item on the local radio station... and on it went. The point was that it didn't take long for it to become clear that only a miracle would save the company- banks might have had confidence in us, but too much damage had been done for them to be happy about just doling money out to us.

Most small airlines lead a fairly hand-to-mouth existence. They may be getting good load factors and be in profit, but it takes very, very little in this industry to upset the apple cart- consumer confidence is everything. Many airlines, large and small, have found this out to their cost- and many of them might have been able to trade out of any difficulties in a less unforgiving industry. That is why smaller airlines often fail after a serious accident.

Anyway, I agree, nice chatting aboutt his stuff!
 

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