SQ Pilots - Give ALPAS Your View
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Mmm....and there we have one Singaporeans perspective on the issue at hand. A minority view at present but prevalent in the past.
So as an expat Captain on the A310 I can expect $2800 IFA and $1500 meal allowance? Rather than start with figures from the glossy side of the spectrum why not a new A310 Captains salary and allowances.
Comparing SIAs salaries to Air Canadas makes no sense at all. Income is relevant to the cost of living. Singapore is very expensive and Canada is not. A more appropriate comparison, if you must make one, might be Cathay and if you insist on basing it on an SIA IP then compare to a Cathay A scaler.
Lets get this quite clear, SIA advertised for pilots in Australia and pilots responded. SIA took advantage of the situation in Australia at a time of need, much like now. If you have any complaints then take it to the Flight Operations Recruiting Dept. If you still carry around a large chip on that shoulder regarding foreigners, then remember that nearly everyone in Singapore is a foreigner, barring a few Malays.
During these testing times at SIA, I thought for once the entire pilot body stood together. Such diatribe as was written by Cobra can only aid the Company in their divide and rule policy.
So as an expat Captain on the A310 I can expect $2800 IFA and $1500 meal allowance? Rather than start with figures from the glossy side of the spectrum why not a new A310 Captains salary and allowances.
Comparing SIAs salaries to Air Canadas makes no sense at all. Income is relevant to the cost of living. Singapore is very expensive and Canada is not. A more appropriate comparison, if you must make one, might be Cathay and if you insist on basing it on an SIA IP then compare to a Cathay A scaler.
Lets get this quite clear, SIA advertised for pilots in Australia and pilots responded. SIA took advantage of the situation in Australia at a time of need, much like now. If you have any complaints then take it to the Flight Operations Recruiting Dept. If you still carry around a large chip on that shoulder regarding foreigners, then remember that nearly everyone in Singapore is a foreigner, barring a few Malays.
During these testing times at SIA, I thought for once the entire pilot body stood together. Such diatribe as was written by Cobra can only aid the Company in their divide and rule policy.
Guest
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Thruth hurts
If you go to Korea your copilots english will be worse
Right
You arnt here to teach him english
here to earn your living.or else starve.Most with their second wives.
So try contradicting the salary figures
40% tax + Gst in your countries
Go back guys .You cant
Will earn quarter your wages
If you go to Korea your copilots english will be worse
Right
You arnt here to teach him english
here to earn your living.or else starve.Most with their second wives.
So try contradicting the salary figures
40% tax + Gst in your countries
Go back guys .You cant
Will earn quarter your wages
Guest
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Snaky Cobra,
I hope you will improve your English or are you trying to smoke screen? Hope all local pilots don't speak this way.
As this is a global forum, can you clarify IP, IFA, CA and CPF???
Why do you draw a comparison between a senior Capt in SQ with a brand new expat Capt? How many Capts are drawing top of the scale, anyway? I believe the new joiner in KAL and CAL are matching the top of SQ local scale if you do not consider the variabble bonus. I also believe KAL and CAL are paying US$140-160 in overtime pay which is not factored in your thread. You can't match KAL meal allowance which is hourly based, hence fair work for "BUS drivers"
I sense that SQ is an efficient airline. Problem areas seem to be ops management, HR policy, cronyism and poor people management.
I hope you will improve your English or are you trying to smoke screen? Hope all local pilots don't speak this way.
As this is a global forum, can you clarify IP, IFA, CA and CPF???
Why do you draw a comparison between a senior Capt in SQ with a brand new expat Capt? How many Capts are drawing top of the scale, anyway? I believe the new joiner in KAL and CAL are matching the top of SQ local scale if you do not consider the variabble bonus. I also believe KAL and CAL are paying US$140-160 in overtime pay which is not factored in your thread. You can't match KAL meal allowance which is hourly based, hence fair work for "BUS drivers"
I sense that SQ is an efficient airline. Problem areas seem to be ops management, HR policy, cronyism and poor people management.
Guest
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I think sneaky_cobra is a wind up. A new poster and atrocious english. If this is not a joke then it is the worst case of "Mahatir Complex" I have ever seen!
If we are to be objective here, then reading the graphs and tables at the back of The Economist is always a good perspective to see how expensive it is to live in Singapore. As of a few weeks ago it was more than New York.
sneaky_cobra, I like your sense of humour, however, if you are for real, then may I suggest you take it down a few pegs before your eyes pop!
If we are to be objective here, then reading the graphs and tables at the back of The Economist is always a good perspective to see how expensive it is to live in Singapore. As of a few weeks ago it was more than New York.
sneaky_cobra, I like your sense of humour, however, if you are for real, then may I suggest you take it down a few pegs before your eyes pop!
Guest
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Sure Cobra.
You neglected to mention that any expat who joined SIA in the last 5 years isn't entitled to CPF. We get a provident fund (10% contribution from the company) which has managed to lose money ever since it's inception. (Our beloved DFO is on the board of directors,of course). No bonus contribution to the fund either.
What about the former 6% increment that mangement diddled from the pilots last year? I don't think a pilot who joined now will be making $12,000 basic per month after 10 years.(Maybe after the pay rise comes in-but we will never obtain the same ratio of pay that we would have if the 6% increment wasn't changed).
And management also moved the goal posts in the determination of how much bonus is paid (knowing there will be record profits this year). And the housing allowance is only 80% subsidy-so you have to pay about $12,000 a year towards your house. And the school fees have risen 30% since the last time they were adjusted, so plan on about $6,000+ a year out of pocket for each kid. And the lousiest staff travel in the industry, so if you don't live in a SIA destination city, you must pay for tickets to go home from the nearest SIA city from which you live. (Even though we are part of Star Alliance). And a car will set you back $85,000. And if you are not type rated, you must front-up with a bond of $45,000+ (depending on type).
Any more benefits which you would like to discuss?
[This message has been edited by Mack Number (edited 27 February 2001).]
You neglected to mention that any expat who joined SIA in the last 5 years isn't entitled to CPF. We get a provident fund (10% contribution from the company) which has managed to lose money ever since it's inception. (Our beloved DFO is on the board of directors,of course). No bonus contribution to the fund either.
What about the former 6% increment that mangement diddled from the pilots last year? I don't think a pilot who joined now will be making $12,000 basic per month after 10 years.(Maybe after the pay rise comes in-but we will never obtain the same ratio of pay that we would have if the 6% increment wasn't changed).
And management also moved the goal posts in the determination of how much bonus is paid (knowing there will be record profits this year). And the housing allowance is only 80% subsidy-so you have to pay about $12,000 a year towards your house. And the school fees have risen 30% since the last time they were adjusted, so plan on about $6,000+ a year out of pocket for each kid. And the lousiest staff travel in the industry, so if you don't live in a SIA destination city, you must pay for tickets to go home from the nearest SIA city from which you live. (Even though we are part of Star Alliance). And a car will set you back $85,000. And if you are not type rated, you must front-up with a bond of $45,000+ (depending on type).
Any more benefits which you would like to discuss?
[This message has been edited by Mack Number (edited 27 February 2001).]
Guest
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Cobra isnt rite, the paye that he qwotes is not aplicerabel to exphatriate.eXphatrate payre moste tax becaurse hees not a Singaphoranean, sous paye moch mores tax lahs.New entery Caphtains muches lesser thax thsaan locel lars . Hockien Mee f4or all exphatriate.
Guest
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IAC Industrial Arbritation Court has been put back to 12th March at Alpha S request, so yet another 2 weeks delay. Ido not think that anyone is saying that a S.I.A. Captain of at least 10 years service is badly paid ,providing current bonuses continue, but these are never guaranteed and I suspect they will want to reduce them at first opportunity. I know I could leave and get a much better paid job if it were not for the outragous bonding system. I consider it incumbent on S.I.A. to pay me market rates in return for this 5 year bond. I also feel cheated out of my 6% annual service increments which I thought were set in stone,but like everything in S.I.A. it is all covered in CA booklet hidden in some subparagraph on Page 80 or thereabouts!! If we do not get our full backpay then I think there will be an uproar of deafening proportions!! Watch this space!!!
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The point to be noted in Cobra's posting is not the poor english, but he underlying venom. True to his name.
I would hate to have a snake next to me on a flight.
For one, I would not leave the cockpit at all. He also makes me understand the psyche of the man who put the SilkAir 737 down.
I would hate to have a snake next to me on a flight.
For one, I would not leave the cockpit at all. He also makes me understand the psyche of the man who put the SilkAir 737 down.
Guest
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Well friends there is no point fuming at cobra... his english or his level of intelligence. He may be one frustrated lot. He seems to be so ill informed about other fleet pilots salary and allowances. In fact the pilots who are joining now on the 310 or 777 are paid by SIA a pay even lower than paid in developing countries... like Bangladesh, Pakistan, India and even Srilanka. The reason only Sia can explain. The profit what the company declare is part of ot by cheating its employees. SIA charges higher fares that any world class arilines on a particular sector but manage to higher work force (local or ex-pat) at far lower rates than those of the world class airlines. So it means most of the profit is out of empolyees' salary only. SIA knows very well that its locals have no choice they can not even think of joining anywhare else 'cos they are not allowed to do so. Ex-pats... SIA is not bothered about they are migratory birds and can not have impact on the local culture.
HEY! DID ANY BODY HEAR ABOUT THE SIA INCIDENT
2 DAYS BACK
where flt. CCU-SIN had left 5 pax. and 4 crew members injured badly in cruise and has been nicely hushed up by the management 'cos one of their IP like Cobra was involved. On top of this SIA could not arrange even medical care on time after arrival. Can anybody comment.
HEY! DID ANY BODY HEAR ABOUT THE SIA INCIDENT
2 DAYS BACK
where flt. CCU-SIN had left 5 pax. and 4 crew members injured badly in cruise and has been nicely hushed up by the management 'cos one of their IP like Cobra was involved. On top of this SIA could not arrange even medical care on time after arrival. Can anybody comment.
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Hot off the press today is that the next hearing by the Singapore IAC has been put back to 9 April 01 at the judge's direction, under a "two month rule" to allow ALPAS and SIA to start talking again. What seems to be the two key issues of pay rates for incumbents versus pay rates for new entrants plus effective date of the new CA are to be discussed again even though M de V says there is no further room for dialogue.
Will ALPAS give away the farm (as usual) or stick to the members' guns of equal pay for incumbents and new entrants plus effective date of 21 Nov 1998 for the new CA, following lapse of the old one?
Standby for further divide and rule tactics from maestro Maurice plus craven capitulation by the Executive Committee.
Jeez!
Will ALPAS give away the farm (as usual) or stick to the members' guns of equal pay for incumbents and new entrants plus effective date of 21 Nov 1998 for the new CA, following lapse of the old one?
Standby for further divide and rule tactics from maestro Maurice plus craven capitulation by the Executive Committee.
Jeez!
Guest
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http://www.channelnewsasia.com.sg/ar...iness54000.htm
never thought local would be interested in this debate...
never thought local would be interested in this debate...
Guest
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Quite discouraging, both in the assessment of SIA management bent and ALPA-S resolve in the face of it.
A hard line on retroactivity of a new agreement is in vogue at airline managements world wide these days, and understandable as tough negotiation tactics.
Common also in such negotiations are 'divide and conquer' tactics that attempt to exchange full retroactivity for incumbents with reduced wages for future hires - in this instance, an apparent effort to leverage ALPA-S to forgoe additional compensation and benefit gains for pay parity for the entire group in future negotiations lest they remain hopelessly divided.
Pay scales at rates other than parity, however, would seem to run counter to the greater goals of addressing the current shortage of crews and delay the achievement of sustainable staffing levels fleet-wide; exacerbate an already dismal morale problem; and likely 'poison the well' ahead of the arrival of a new SVP whose apparent task is to restore credibility to the SIA flight operations department after SQ 006.
Knowledgeable comment that will assist an 'outsider' in understanding such is solicited.
Thanks to all.
A hard line on retroactivity of a new agreement is in vogue at airline managements world wide these days, and understandable as tough negotiation tactics.
Common also in such negotiations are 'divide and conquer' tactics that attempt to exchange full retroactivity for incumbents with reduced wages for future hires - in this instance, an apparent effort to leverage ALPA-S to forgoe additional compensation and benefit gains for pay parity for the entire group in future negotiations lest they remain hopelessly divided.
Pay scales at rates other than parity, however, would seem to run counter to the greater goals of addressing the current shortage of crews and delay the achievement of sustainable staffing levels fleet-wide; exacerbate an already dismal morale problem; and likely 'poison the well' ahead of the arrival of a new SVP whose apparent task is to restore credibility to the SIA flight operations department after SQ 006.
Knowledgeable comment that will assist an 'outsider' in understanding such is solicited.
Thanks to all.