Continental 61 Captain dies en route
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How frequently do pilots undergo health checks?
They have annual medical tests until they are 60. After that it's every six months.
Is that the case in the UK or Europe? Here in the Great White North, once you go over 40 it's every six months for a medical.
They have annual medical tests until they are 60. After that it's every six months.
Is that the case in the UK or Europe? Here in the Great White North, once you go over 40 it's every six months for a medical.
That's Life!!
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Under JAA regs the situation changed, it used to be the same, but is annual medical until 60, then every six months.
Is a prat with an anorak and tatty beard, lives in Aberdeen and was the BBC's helicopter expert despite the fact that he's never held a pro licence!
"Jim Ferguson - an aviation writer from the UK"
60 v 65
UK life tables give the probability of death in the next year for a man aged 60 as 0.97 %. At 65 this is about 1.6%. Small numbers but still 50% raise. For info at 32 its 0.1%.
National Statistics Online - Product - Interim Life tables
National Statistics Online - Product - Interim Life tables
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Myself, I count lucky I was able to retire at 56. I found not much desire to stay in the books and keep as up to date as I required of myself. This argument of experience doesn't cut it with me, after 15000 hrs in command how much more can you get. At 45 I was on the top of my game and slowly downhill after that. I've seen alot of guys happy with the 60+, but most of them had no retirement skills.
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From the Learmount/BBC Q&A:
Were I writing the rules, I would require that one pilot be over 60.
The yet-unanswered question: If a deadheading pilot is called up to fill an empty seat, is he exempt from out-of-hours rules? Does he collect overtime pay? Who pays for the lawyers?
They can keep flying until they are 65, but there is a rule that if one pilot is between 60 and 65 the other pilot has to be younger than 60.
The yet-unanswered question: If a deadheading pilot is called up to fill an empty seat, is he exempt from out-of-hours rules? Does he collect overtime pay? Who pays for the lawyers?
Plumbum Pendular
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"the plane would have been difficult to land with only one pilot at the controls"
"You could, I gather, land a 777 single-handed - but it would require a lot of effort ...
"You could, I gather, land a 777 single-handed - but it would require a lot of effort ...
I wonder if the risk of having to guys over 60 is an worse than the risk of having only 2 engines?
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All this senseless codswallop 
In Western, peacetime Civil Aviation,other than crash-induced *
When was the last time that 2 persons died on the same flight?
1-pax and 1- flight-crew?
2 flight-crew?
2 flight -deck crew?
I'd suggest....NEVER
plenty of lorries thunder along the motorways, nose to tail, day and night....accidents (other than in inclement weather) are extremely rare
I've only read, 2 or 3 times, in the last 50 years, of a driver (including coaches and buses) becoming incapacitated or dying whilst at the wheel......but i don't ever recollect a fatal accident ensuing.
The present 2-pilot setup is proven safe, statistically, NO complete flight-deck crew has died"spontaneously" , consequently crashing.
Therefore, the record in 100 years , shows conclusively that the present system works and people age 65 are no more likely to die than those over 45.
The bloke died at work, his colleagues took over his duties.....happens in all fields of human endeavour, every day.
* just trying to pre-empt all the nit-picking pedants.
In Western, peacetime Civil Aviation,other than crash-induced *
When was the last time that 2 persons died on the same flight?
1-pax and 1- flight-crew?
2 flight-crew?
2 flight -deck crew?
I'd suggest....NEVER
plenty of lorries thunder along the motorways, nose to tail, day and night....accidents (other than in inclement weather) are extremely rare
I've only read, 2 or 3 times, in the last 50 years, of a driver (including coaches and buses) becoming incapacitated or dying whilst at the wheel......but i don't ever recollect a fatal accident ensuing.
The present 2-pilot setup is proven safe, statistically, NO complete flight-deck crew has died"spontaneously" , consequently crashing.
Therefore, the record in 100 years , shows conclusively that the present system works and people age 65 are no more likely to die than those over 45.
The bloke died at work, his colleagues took over his duties.....happens in all fields of human endeavour, every day.
* just trying to pre-empt all the nit-picking pedants.
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cockney steve
Your comment reminds me of my statistics teacher 45 years ago who said "most people have more than the average number of legs". It's true, so what?
Your "people age 65 are no more likely to die than those over 45" is unquestionable, since we all have a 100% probablility of dying. The question is when?
If you deny that a 65 y-o has more chance of dying tomorrow than a 45 y-o, then you're really in denial.
Your "people age 65 are no more likely to die than those over 45" is unquestionable, since we all have a 100% probablility of dying. The question is when?
If you deny that a 65 y-o has more chance of dying tomorrow than a 45 y-o, then you're really in denial.
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Okay, doesn't a 45 year-old have more chance of dying than a 35 year-old? And so on...
By that logic we should all be safest with fuzzy-cheeked 18 year-olds doing the piloting! Or perhaps computers rather than humans.
Personally, I'd like to see some sort of stress test developed that could show, one way or the other, who's still relatively fit, physically and mentally, and who's past it. You do have some guys who stay fit and others who are crocks in their thirties; just picking an age isn't the full answer.
Years ago there was a story, true I believe, about a pilot dropping dead at the door as he was on his way out of the Medical Centre at Gatwick with a fresh Class I in his pocket.
By that logic we should all be safest with fuzzy-cheeked 18 year-olds doing the piloting! Or perhaps computers rather than humans.
Personally, I'd like to see some sort of stress test developed that could show, one way or the other, who's still relatively fit, physically and mentally, and who's past it. You do have some guys who stay fit and others who are crocks in their thirties; just picking an age isn't the full answer.
Years ago there was a story, true I believe, about a pilot dropping dead at the door as he was on his way out of the Medical Centre at Gatwick with a fresh Class I in his pocket.
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Gents, this is amazing. 118 posts about a subject that has been thrashed around for years now and nothing really new has come of it. Pilots die from all sorts of reasons and all ages young and old. Were beating a dead horse by continuing this debate IMO.
BTW, I had a 50 year old F/O in what appeared to be perfect health drop dead while landing the mighty 777 at CDG many years ago. Blood clot to the brain as it turne out. Guess what, we all survived except of course the poor F/O.
Bad stuff happens.
BTW, I had a 50 year old F/O in what appeared to be perfect health drop dead while landing the mighty 777 at CDG many years ago. Blood clot to the brain as it turne out. Guess what, we all survived except of course the poor F/O.
Bad stuff happens.
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Never suggested anything like that.
A blood clot is not likey to show up as a medical condition. I don't care if the medical is every four months and it's not likely to produce any precurser to a blood clot or aneruism other than perhaps high blood pressure. Not going to venture a guess because I'm not an areo medical expert. You should drop it as well IMO.
A blood clot is not likey to show up as a medical condition. I don't care if the medical is every four months and it's not likely to produce any precurser to a blood clot or aneruism other than perhaps high blood pressure. Not going to venture a guess because I'm not an areo medical expert. You should drop it as well IMO.
Years ago there was a story, true I believe, about a pilot dropping dead at the door as he was on his way out of the Medical Centre at Gatwick with a fresh Class I in his pocket.
I recently renewed my Class 1 med. cert ( at age 74 - no age restriction for holding a 'commercial' licence in NZ ) with a regular ECG. Fit, no problem.
ONLY because of my age was I then required to undertake a further stress ECG, purely as a precaution, but this showed up some irregularity and my licence was revoked pending further investigation, but ......... if I'd been a bit younger the extra ECG would not have been required, and the irregularity would not have been discovered - until I dropped dead at the controls.
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Use as much sarcasm as you like...
It's cheap and there's plenty of it around.
There are many sides to this argument but the two that really matter, in my opinion, are safety and the politics of the workplace.
There's never been a convincing safety argument for a hard age limit, given how variable each person's physical condition is, how to balance the negatives of increasing age against the positives of increasing experience... All in all, after much back-and-forth the USA just lifted the Age 60 Ban on airline pilots and that says a lot.
The politics of the workplace is against aged pilots, of course! Well, from the self-interested perspective of a young pilot the crocks should all be dragged out of that left seat kicking and screaming and never mind the state of their retirement funds or whatever. This has nothing to do with safety per se but one can easily use a safety-related argument to pursue this end.
There have been relatively few crashes due to a pilot dying or becoming incapacitated at the controls. (Google: Reed Pigman for one in particular, though.) How many are due to inexperience, though? Some I read about, I have to think, "Gee, I really think I have learned not to do THAT!"
The grumpy elders end up in the circle of wagons with the wild, half-naked yoof out there riding around in circles wearing their warpaint and screaming. So? Not a lot of learning goes on in these dialogues.
There are many sides to this argument but the two that really matter, in my opinion, are safety and the politics of the workplace.
There's never been a convincing safety argument for a hard age limit, given how variable each person's physical condition is, how to balance the negatives of increasing age against the positives of increasing experience... All in all, after much back-and-forth the USA just lifted the Age 60 Ban on airline pilots and that says a lot.
The politics of the workplace is against aged pilots, of course! Well, from the self-interested perspective of a young pilot the crocks should all be dragged out of that left seat kicking and screaming and never mind the state of their retirement funds or whatever. This has nothing to do with safety per se but one can easily use a safety-related argument to pursue this end.
There have been relatively few crashes due to a pilot dying or becoming incapacitated at the controls. (Google: Reed Pigman for one in particular, though.) How many are due to inexperience, though? Some I read about, I have to think, "Gee, I really think I have learned not to do THAT!"
The grumpy elders end up in the circle of wagons with the wild, half-naked yoof out there riding around in circles wearing their warpaint and screaming. So? Not a lot of learning goes on in these dialogues.
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Received a copy of this email today,
xxxxxx,
Last week, Capt. Brian McManus, a Delta 767ER pilot, landed at JFK, drove home to Conn. The next morning he was found dead. HE WAS 49 YEARS OLD. He missed passing away in flight by about 12 hours. Perhaps the mandatory age should be 49 ! By the way, Capt McManus was a staunch advocate of keeping the age at 60, since as he once told me, "60 is when you really start to become a health risk"
xxxxx
Courant.com Obituaries
xxxxxx,
Last week, Capt. Brian McManus, a Delta 767ER pilot, landed at JFK, drove home to Conn. The next morning he was found dead. HE WAS 49 YEARS OLD. He missed passing away in flight by about 12 hours. Perhaps the mandatory age should be 49 ! By the way, Capt McManus was a staunch advocate of keeping the age at 60, since as he once told me, "60 is when you really start to become a health risk"
xxxxx
Courant.com Obituaries