Pilot caught smelling of alcohol at LHR
Thread Starter
as above, do not want to name any airline, full facts will come out in due course. i just heard a pilot was found to be "over the limit" and had his collar felt. my point was that there have been a few of these incidents in the last couple of months, and it`s not doing the reputation of the industry any good.
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I'm not having much faith these days in the ability of security in LHR to accurately detect over the limit pilots.
I think we need a little more evidence that said pilot was actually over the limit than simply LHR security pulling him aside. They seem to have difficulty differentiating between the smell of cherry chewing gum and booze....
If he was in fact impaired, have at 'em. There should be zero tolerance in my opinion, and it does the whole profession a disservice when such things happen. But until there is concrete evidence, I'm witholding judgment and assuming the pilot's innocence.
I think we need a little more evidence that said pilot was actually over the limit than simply LHR security pulling him aside. They seem to have difficulty differentiating between the smell of cherry chewing gum and booze....
If he was in fact impaired, have at 'em. There should be zero tolerance in my opinion, and it does the whole profession a disservice when such things happen. But until there is concrete evidence, I'm witholding judgment and assuming the pilot's innocence.
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Last time a thread such as this appeared, there was much consternation and outrage. Until it turned out that there was no case, that is. Then all the consternators and outraged quietly disappeared without a word.
There are far too many people far too willing and quick to judge.
There are far too many people far too willing and quick to judge.
Of course it will keep happening, unless we get "pilotless airliners"
I am sure that I am not the only alcoholic reading this board. For those of you who do not suffer from alcoholism, maybe I can contribute some new information:
* Perhaps 5 to 10 per cent of the population has a genetic predisposition to suffer from addiction.
* This predisposition can manifest itself in a wide variety of ways: booze, drugs, food, etc. It's strongly genetically linked: if one parent has an addiction, the kids have a 25 per cent chance of having one. If both parents have it, the kids have a greater than 50 per cent chance of problems.
* Alcoholism is strongly linked with a psychological need to over-achieve. That's why alcoholics have a greater-than-average chance of achieving greatness in society: in sport, in business, and in Seat 0A ...
* We alcoholics have a saying: "A social drinker drinker stops at three drinks because they don't like the feeling more would give them. A problem drinker drinks so much it becomes a problem to other people. An alcoholic drinks so much it becomes a problem to HIMSELF."
* An alcoholic does not drink because he or she likes the taste, or because they're thirsty. We drink because every fibre of our being tells us that we MUST. Yes, we're wrong, but we don't know that: a bit like ignoring what the instruments are telling you because the seat of your pants disagrees.
* A social drinker or a problem drinker can say "OK, I am flying in a couple of days, I can't drink." An alcoholic can't do that. By the time the disease has progressed to the point where airport security can pick it up, the alcoholic must have alcohol or he will get very sick indeed.
* You can not frighten an alcoholic into not drinking. We drink because we are already too frightened not to drink. More sanctions, more penalties, more detection -- this just makes alcoholism worse.
* The only "cure" is "Don't drink. At all. Ever." I have not had a drink since 1992: not even the smell of a cork. Of course, this doesn't cure the disease of alcoholism, it simply prevents its more unpleasant symptoms (e.g. unemployment...) from appearing. Any alcoholic will tell you they would rather shoot themselves than take that 'cure' (and many do...).
* I personally know four pilots who have regained the front left seat after losing the battle with the bottle. Three retired as captains of heavies for major USA airlines. One is still flying.
* Two of these guys handed in their ATPLs and had to re-qualify. One had to go right back to re-gain his PPL. One was hauled out of the captain's seat in handcuffs, in front of his startled passengers. They made it back, and I can tell you how.
* Some of the people reading this may have this problem right now. Alcohol is the greatest solvent known: it disolves cars, houses, marriages, parental rights, careers -- and pilots licences.
* Yes, it will keep happening as long as they keep making human beings. And alcoholism is more common amongst people with the ability to become pilots than it is in the general population.
If you are sitting there now, scared -- really scared -- that it just won't stop, and you can't find a way out: PM me.
If you find yourself delaying the trip home because you can't face the look in your wife's eyes: I know that look. If you are avoiding that look on your children's faces too: well, how bad does it have to get? If you go to work each day with a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach that "any day now, they're going to catch me" -- well, I know that feeling too.
If you don't know what to do: PM me. If you're frightened, and you're serious about it, I can tell you what I did. Worked for me...
If this helps just one pilot to hold onto his or her licence, was it worth making the rest of you read all this? I hope you think it was...
* Perhaps 5 to 10 per cent of the population has a genetic predisposition to suffer from addiction.
* This predisposition can manifest itself in a wide variety of ways: booze, drugs, food, etc. It's strongly genetically linked: if one parent has an addiction, the kids have a 25 per cent chance of having one. If both parents have it, the kids have a greater than 50 per cent chance of problems.
* Alcoholism is strongly linked with a psychological need to over-achieve. That's why alcoholics have a greater-than-average chance of achieving greatness in society: in sport, in business, and in Seat 0A ...
* We alcoholics have a saying: "A social drinker drinker stops at three drinks because they don't like the feeling more would give them. A problem drinker drinks so much it becomes a problem to other people. An alcoholic drinks so much it becomes a problem to HIMSELF."
* An alcoholic does not drink because he or she likes the taste, or because they're thirsty. We drink because every fibre of our being tells us that we MUST. Yes, we're wrong, but we don't know that: a bit like ignoring what the instruments are telling you because the seat of your pants disagrees.
* A social drinker or a problem drinker can say "OK, I am flying in a couple of days, I can't drink." An alcoholic can't do that. By the time the disease has progressed to the point where airport security can pick it up, the alcoholic must have alcohol or he will get very sick indeed.
* You can not frighten an alcoholic into not drinking. We drink because we are already too frightened not to drink. More sanctions, more penalties, more detection -- this just makes alcoholism worse.
* The only "cure" is "Don't drink. At all. Ever." I have not had a drink since 1992: not even the smell of a cork. Of course, this doesn't cure the disease of alcoholism, it simply prevents its more unpleasant symptoms (e.g. unemployment...) from appearing. Any alcoholic will tell you they would rather shoot themselves than take that 'cure' (and many do...).
* I personally know four pilots who have regained the front left seat after losing the battle with the bottle. Three retired as captains of heavies for major USA airlines. One is still flying.
* Two of these guys handed in their ATPLs and had to re-qualify. One had to go right back to re-gain his PPL. One was hauled out of the captain's seat in handcuffs, in front of his startled passengers. They made it back, and I can tell you how.
* Some of the people reading this may have this problem right now. Alcohol is the greatest solvent known: it disolves cars, houses, marriages, parental rights, careers -- and pilots licences.
* Yes, it will keep happening as long as they keep making human beings. And alcoholism is more common amongst people with the ability to become pilots than it is in the general population.
If you are sitting there now, scared -- really scared -- that it just won't stop, and you can't find a way out: PM me.
If you find yourself delaying the trip home because you can't face the look in your wife's eyes: I know that look. If you are avoiding that look on your children's faces too: well, how bad does it have to get? If you go to work each day with a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach that "any day now, they're going to catch me" -- well, I know that feeling too.
If you don't know what to do: PM me. If you're frightened, and you're serious about it, I can tell you what I did. Worked for me...
If this helps just one pilot to hold onto his or her licence, was it worth making the rest of you read all this? I hope you think it was...
Last edited by JohnMcGhie; 20th May 2009 at 12:29. Reason: "front LEFT seat..."
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John
Thanks for taking the time and the trouble to write that brilliant explanation.
They say you have to dig through an awful lot of dirt to find a diamond, and your post is that gem.
As you say if it helps just one person. On the other hand it helps a great many more people understand something that is all too easily misunderstood, despite the fact it is common enough in all sections of society to warrant better awareness.
Thanks for taking the time and the trouble to write that brilliant explanation.
They say you have to dig through an awful lot of dirt to find a diamond, and your post is that gem.
As you say if it helps just one person. On the other hand it helps a great many more people understand something that is all too easily misunderstood, despite the fact it is common enough in all sections of society to warrant better awareness.
Serenity
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J McG,
Well done Sir, thought provoking, dispassionate and carved from your feelings and experience.
Let's please have John's post re-posted at the top of every thread started on this subject. It may just stop the rather repetitive mindless rubbish that seems to follow what may just become another allegation that vanishes into the ether when the true facts are revealed.
How sad that the negative results rarely warrant a post. I for one will wait and see !
Jox
Well done Sir, thought provoking, dispassionate and carved from your feelings and experience.
Let's please have John's post re-posted at the top of every thread started on this subject. It may just stop the rather repetitive mindless rubbish that seems to follow what may just become another allegation that vanishes into the ether when the true facts are revealed.
How sad that the negative results rarely warrant a post. I for one will wait and see !
Jox
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John-
Having gone through a similar experience (didn't lose my pilots license, but DID lose my 'day' job...more than once), I'd also like to say 'THANKS' for your post! Even in my 12 step days (which continue today), I NEVER heard things explained so clearly. So....thanks....and I here's to your continuing recovery!
Having gone through a similar experience (didn't lose my pilots license, but DID lose my 'day' job...more than once), I'd also like to say 'THANKS' for your post! Even in my 12 step days (which continue today), I NEVER heard things explained so clearly. So....thanks....and I here's to your continuing recovery!