Balpa to challenge ID cards
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: SE England
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Labour never said ID cards would be compulsory except for a few airport workers. The plan was always to make life impossible without one, ie no NHS treatment, no credit card use, no welfare benefits unless you produced a card.
Very little has changed.
Very little has changed.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: England
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well done but don't let the guard down
In my opinion, it's great news that airside workers will apparently not be forced to apply for ID Cards. As an airside worker I'd like to thank everyone who has lobbied, written to their MP/newspaper, complained to their union/management, or publicised the issue in any way they could.
However, we will still be able to "volunteer" for a "free" card.
The Government's attempts to usher in this scheme by stealth continues, so it's important that airside workers are kept informed of the potential dangers of submitting their personal and biometric details for use in a vulnerable database. At least then they can make their own minds up from an informed perspective.
The propaganda machine will continue its efforts to suppress the arguments against ID Cards. If airside workers are not allowed to weigh up both the pros and cons, there is a risk that some might make their decision whether to sign up as a result of ignorance. Once a sizeable proportion of workers are on the database, compulsory ID Cards may again loom on the horizon.
However, we will still be able to "volunteer" for a "free" card.
The Government's attempts to usher in this scheme by stealth continues, so it's important that airside workers are kept informed of the potential dangers of submitting their personal and biometric details for use in a vulnerable database. At least then they can make their own minds up from an informed perspective.
The propaganda machine will continue its efforts to suppress the arguments against ID Cards. If airside workers are not allowed to weigh up both the pros and cons, there is a risk that some might make their decision whether to sign up as a result of ignorance. Once a sizeable proportion of workers are on the database, compulsory ID Cards may again loom on the horizon.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Chester
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Local rumour has it that at least one of the airport's management members may have had a financial interest in the companies providing the ID and other 'security' infrastructure."
Anyone with specific details please pm me - I'd love to get my teeth into this.
Whatever the reasons for their 'U' Turn - a great result.
Now kick the
out asap.
Anyone with specific details please pm me - I'd love to get my teeth into this.
Whatever the reasons for their 'U' Turn - a great result.
Now kick the
out asap.
Well I'm in a right pickle now.
Last week I got a letter from The Labour Party asking me if I would like to rejoin. (Yes I was proud to be a member once upon a time)
I replied saying that as I work airside at MAN I would rejoin if they scrap the ID card.
Last week I got a letter from The Labour Party asking me if I would like to rejoin. (Yes I was proud to be a member once upon a time)
I replied saying that as I work airside at MAN I would rejoin if they scrap the ID card.
Gents, I would keep you powder dry if I were you. All that has happened is that the Manchester and London City trials have been cancelled. The real issue is what they intend to do about the National Identity Register (NIR). It always was the case that they could cancel the ID Card but keep the NIR for passport registration. See Liberty's press release:
Liberty - Protecting Civil Liberties Promoting Human Rights : 30/06/09 Liberty response to Home Office ID cards announcement
>>30 Jun 2009 Responding to the new Home Secretary's announcement on ID cards today, Isabella Sankey, Director of Policy for Liberty, said:
“The Home Secretary needs to be clear as to whether entry onto the National Identity Register will continue to be automatic when applying for a passport. If so, the identity scheme will be compulsory in practice. However you spin it, big ears, four legs and a long trunk still make an elephant. And this white elephant would be as costly to privacy and race equality as to our purses.”<<
I will be watching the progress of the ID Cards Statutory Instruments very closely:
NO2ID :: View topic - ID Cards Statutory Instruments
It seems to me that the whole country could be falling for a devilish piece of spin. They know people don't like ID Cards but have little concept of the NIR. It looks like the Government will get exactly what it wants - an Register linked to a passport. All they will have to do is start making the passport a designated document for a range of purposes. They will still be able link the major events of your life to a central register. The difference is that this is somewhat harder to campaign against!
Beware wise men bearing gifts.
Liberty - Protecting Civil Liberties Promoting Human Rights : 30/06/09 Liberty response to Home Office ID cards announcement
>>30 Jun 2009 Responding to the new Home Secretary's announcement on ID cards today, Isabella Sankey, Director of Policy for Liberty, said:
“The Home Secretary needs to be clear as to whether entry onto the National Identity Register will continue to be automatic when applying for a passport. If so, the identity scheme will be compulsory in practice. However you spin it, big ears, four legs and a long trunk still make an elephant. And this white elephant would be as costly to privacy and race equality as to our purses.”<<
I will be watching the progress of the ID Cards Statutory Instruments very closely:
NO2ID :: View topic - ID Cards Statutory Instruments
It seems to me that the whole country could be falling for a devilish piece of spin. They know people don't like ID Cards but have little concept of the NIR. It looks like the Government will get exactly what it wants - an Register linked to a passport. All they will have to do is start making the passport a designated document for a range of purposes. They will still be able link the major events of your life to a central register. The difference is that this is somewhat harder to campaign against!
Beware wise men bearing gifts.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 3433N 06912E
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree with you Spartacan,
A key point in Alan Johnson's statement:
"Mr Johnson said the ID card scheme was still very much alive - despite Tory and Lib Dem calls to scrap it.
[He] said the national roll-out of a voluntary scheme was being speeded-up - with London to get them a year early in 2010 and over-75s to get free cards."
A key point in Alan Johnson's statement:
"Mr Johnson said the ID card scheme was still very much alive - despite Tory and Lib Dem calls to scrap it.
[He] said the national roll-out of a voluntary scheme was being speeded-up - with London to get them a year early in 2010 and over-75s to get free cards."
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: not a million miles from old BKK
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beware wise men bearing gifts.
If they really wanted to they could construct the bones of an NIR now using:
- NI/Soc Sec data
- Income tax data
- Passport data
- Drivers License data
- Council Tax data
- Public Library data
The only things they can't get their grubby hands on at the moment are medical and dental records or your bank accounts. At least NOT YET. Just wait and see - Big Brother is a determined little shlt
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 3433N 06912E
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes they can and they don't need your permission either.
Also, loyalty cards (eg Nectar cards) already share the information with HMRC to cross reference your spending with your income tax to determine if you are spending more than you earn; Which therefore indicates that you are not declaring your full income and should be paying more income tax.
Also your medical records *will* be available to central government as everything is planned to be centralized ([...]to computerize all NHS patients' records, originally estimated to cost £2.3 billion over three years but the cost of which has grown to £12.7 billion).
you can "opt out" but you will have to pay to opt out and to maintain your paper records.
A problem the government has is the interfacing of records across different sources effectively...
"[...] costing the taxpayer almost as much as the autumn bank bailout. But the huge amounts being spent by the Government on information technology — £16 billion this financial year — are barely noticed.
With no central regulation by one ministry, civil servants enter into contracts worth billions with a few select companies.
The details are protected by confidentiality agreements and periodic progress reviews in Whitehall are kept private, despite calls by MPs and anti-privacy campaigners for their disclosure.
The cost of most large projects balloons. The Government admits that only about 30 per cent are completed on time and on budget.
An investigation shows that the overrun of the largest IT projects totals £18.6 billion."
The government remains committed to try any aspect to garner as much data on the populace as possible with the ID card scheme an attempt to provide a central source of data on the populace, not for immigration or security but to enhance the ability to increase taxation capacity.
"Mr Johnson said the ID card scheme was still very much alive "
Spartacan is is correct, the government continues to face ever diminishing support and lack of financial capability, yet it needs more taxation revenue to resolve the very problems it created.
This government had as it's election policy a referendum, yet denied the electorate it's very own election pledge on basis of a different title.
Also, loyalty cards (eg Nectar cards) already share the information with HMRC to cross reference your spending with your income tax to determine if you are spending more than you earn; Which therefore indicates that you are not declaring your full income and should be paying more income tax.
Also your medical records *will* be available to central government as everything is planned to be centralized ([...]to computerize all NHS patients' records, originally estimated to cost £2.3 billion over three years but the cost of which has grown to £12.7 billion).
you can "opt out" but you will have to pay to opt out and to maintain your paper records.
A problem the government has is the interfacing of records across different sources effectively...
"[...] costing the taxpayer almost as much as the autumn bank bailout. But the huge amounts being spent by the Government on information technology — £16 billion this financial year — are barely noticed.
With no central regulation by one ministry, civil servants enter into contracts worth billions with a few select companies.
The details are protected by confidentiality agreements and periodic progress reviews in Whitehall are kept private, despite calls by MPs and anti-privacy campaigners for their disclosure.
The cost of most large projects balloons. The Government admits that only about 30 per cent are completed on time and on budget.
An investigation shows that the overrun of the largest IT projects totals £18.6 billion."
The government remains committed to try any aspect to garner as much data on the populace as possible with the ID card scheme an attempt to provide a central source of data on the populace, not for immigration or security but to enhance the ability to increase taxation capacity.
"Mr Johnson said the ID card scheme was still very much alive "
Spartacan is is correct, the government continues to face ever diminishing support and lack of financial capability, yet it needs more taxation revenue to resolve the very problems it created.
It seems to me that the whole country could be falling for a devilish piece of spin. They know people don't like ID Cards but have little concept of the NIR. It looks like the Government will get exactly what it wants - an Register linked to a passport. All they will have to do is start making the passport a designated document for a range of purposes. They will still be able link the major events of your life to a central register. The difference is that this is somewhat harder to campaign against!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tracey Island
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed. The celebration is only over the dropping of the compulsion for airside workers....The fight still goes on to kill the scheme completely.
It is obvious that they are leaving the scheme in place to fulfil their need to garnish information on their subjects, in the vain hope they will win the next election.
Pressure must be kept up on the Government, by all that have opposed the compulsion element within the aviation world, to finish the scheme altogether.
Hopefully the workers at Manchester and LCY will refuse to join the scheme in those areas and not give them anything to crow about.
The emphasis must now be on educating people about the implications of the data base............As well as getting rid of this lot.....
It is obvious that they are leaving the scheme in place to fulfil their need to garnish information on their subjects, in the vain hope they will win the next election.
Pressure must be kept up on the Government, by all that have opposed the compulsion element within the aviation world, to finish the scheme altogether.
Hopefully the workers at Manchester and LCY will refuse to join the scheme in those areas and not give them anything to crow about.
The emphasis must now be on educating people about the implications of the data base............As well as getting rid of this lot.....
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Land of Beer and Chocolate
Age: 56
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I'm in a right pickle now.
Last week I got a letter from The Labour Party asking me if I would like to rejoin. (Yes I was proud to be a member once upon a time)
I replied saying that as I work airside at MAN I would rejoin if they scrap the ID card.
Last week I got a letter from The Labour Party asking me if I would like to rejoin. (Yes I was proud to be a member once upon a time)
I replied saying that as I work airside at MAN I would rejoin if they scrap the ID card.
Feel better now, thanks. 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Land of Beer and Chocolate
Age: 56
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Feel better now, thanks. 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tracey Island
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The con was that those immigrants and asylum seekers that were here legally already had an identity card. They just changed the type of card they were required to carry to make the NID system seem palatable to Joe Public.......So I don't see any cases for discrimination coming forward any more than from the previous situation....
Allied to ID Cards is the e-Borders scheme:
UK Border Agency | How does e-Borders work?
which is a de facto exit visa for all British Citizens. This project is also running into problems:
Will EU law stop the e-Borders scheme? | Henry Porter | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
not least because (as some of us have been saying for a long time . . .) the scheme fundamentally breaches Data Protection Laws:
>>Evidence presented to the home affairs select committee on Monday suggests that Britain's plans to use airline, ferry and train operators to collect 53 pieces of information from everyone leaving the country may be illegal under EU law.<<
and
>>In effect, requiring data from passengers will act as an exit visa, because without supplying answers to 53 questions people will not be able to travel. In one nasty data snatch the UKBA has found away of not only breaching the law on privacy enshrined in the Human Rights Act, but also EU treaties that guarantee the right of free movement.<<
The oral evidence from the Home Affairs Committee should appear here:
UK Parliament - hacpn090629no67
in due course!
UK Border Agency | How does e-Borders work?
which is a de facto exit visa for all British Citizens. This project is also running into problems:
Will EU law stop the e-Borders scheme? | Henry Porter | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
not least because (as some of us have been saying for a long time . . .) the scheme fundamentally breaches Data Protection Laws:
>>Evidence presented to the home affairs select committee on Monday suggests that Britain's plans to use airline, ferry and train operators to collect 53 pieces of information from everyone leaving the country may be illegal under EU law.<<
and
>>In effect, requiring data from passengers will act as an exit visa, because without supplying answers to 53 questions people will not be able to travel. In one nasty data snatch the UKBA has found away of not only breaching the law on privacy enshrined in the Human Rights Act, but also EU treaties that guarantee the right of free movement.<<
The oral evidence from the Home Affairs Committee should appear here:
UK Parliament - hacpn090629no67
in due course!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Chester
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question Time BBC 2nd July. David Dimbleby questioning Labour deputy leader Harriet Harman on the subject of I/D cards:
Harman: then there is the question about the airside, which is the airport people working on the side where the aeroplanes are, at two airports which was going to be a pilot scheme...
Dimbleby: Well you've abolished that.
Harman: No we haven't. What we've done is Manchester...
Dimbleby: You've dropped plans to make them compulsory.
Harman: Well I'm just telling you what we're actually doing...
Dimbleby: And I'm just telling you what your Government said they're doing..(applause from audience)
Harman: So basically the idea is that to improve airport security we were going to have two pilots - one in Manchester and one in City Airport London and there was objections from the staff about it being imposed in the airport so what we said is we will cooperate with them if the airport managers and the people who work in the airports want to introduce a system of I/D cards... and if you're a pilot who's got ten different I/D cards... (unfortunately Dimbleby then interrupts her, saying she's gone off track, but Harman persists..)
Harman: we said we'd do foreign nationals, then we'd do airside, then if it was to be extended to British citizens who weren't working in airports we wouldn't do that without we actually took it to the House of Commons and had a vote, and that remains the same as it ever was.
So make of that what you will. There is no cause for celebration yet, this thing seems very much alive even if by another name. Effing c
Harman: then there is the question about the airside, which is the airport people working on the side where the aeroplanes are, at two airports which was going to be a pilot scheme...
Dimbleby: Well you've abolished that.
Harman: No we haven't. What we've done is Manchester...
Dimbleby: You've dropped plans to make them compulsory.
Harman: Well I'm just telling you what we're actually doing...
Dimbleby: And I'm just telling you what your Government said they're doing..(applause from audience)
Harman: So basically the idea is that to improve airport security we were going to have two pilots - one in Manchester and one in City Airport London and there was objections from the staff about it being imposed in the airport so what we said is we will cooperate with them if the airport managers and the people who work in the airports want to introduce a system of I/D cards... and if you're a pilot who's got ten different I/D cards... (unfortunately Dimbleby then interrupts her, saying she's gone off track, but Harman persists..)
Harman: we said we'd do foreign nationals, then we'd do airside, then if it was to be extended to British citizens who weren't working in airports we wouldn't do that without we actually took it to the House of Commons and had a vote, and that remains the same as it ever was.
So make of that what you will. There is no cause for celebration yet, this thing seems very much alive even if by another name. Effing c
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tracey Island
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The more I read that transcript, the more I am convinced she didn't have a clue what the current situation is........I agree that all should be vigilant until it's dead and buried
>>if the airport managers and the people who work in the airports want to introduce a system of I/D cards... and if you're a pilot who's got ten different I/D cards... <<
By implying that pilots hold multiple airside passes she is using the established New Labour trick of conflating two issues by suggesting is that holding one UK ID Card will make pilots lives easier. Harman is not thick. She knew that there would not be enough time in the programme to explore this point which is why she took the opportunity to make it.
By using this tactic she planted an idea that ID Cards are somehow convenient.
I am known locally as someone who campaigns against ID Cards. An aquaintance came up to me and said:
"Good thing that they have cancelled ID Cards"
He had seen the programme and believed the fiddle.
By implying that pilots hold multiple airside passes she is using the established New Labour trick of conflating two issues by suggesting is that holding one UK ID Card will make pilots lives easier. Harman is not thick. She knew that there would not be enough time in the programme to explore this point which is why she took the opportunity to make it.
By using this tactic she planted an idea that ID Cards are somehow convenient.
I am known locally as someone who campaigns against ID Cards. An aquaintance came up to me and said:
"Good thing that they have cancelled ID Cards"
He had seen the programme and believed the fiddle.