LHR new security dictat
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Everything that goes 'airside' is screened from passengers to the stock in duty free shops to the catering on board. All staff, crews and vehicles are also screened - even the people that make the rules that appear to upset so many of you are screened
I can bet what ever that this worked fine the first week security was implemented
It is like the hotel security´s screening the taxis undercarriage with mirrors 10 meters from the lobby door,,what a joke !!
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Wiggy
You just proved my point. You admit that you vent your spleen rather than add valuable input to the debate and you incorrectly and publically assume I refer to web-sites as 'a primary source of information' and discuss with 'mates down the pub' to increase my knowledge of the subject. You are very wrong. Furthermore, the regulation as I understand it, is that everything is screened when entering a restricted zone. If you know or have proof that that is not happening, why have you not passed it to those who can act on it? If you witnessed a burglar breaking into the house next door would you go online and vent your slpeen or call the police? You seem put out that I question the professionalism of some of the responders on here but choose not to address some of the factual stuff. Is that because you agree but don't wish to acknowledge it?
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...it makes you sound arrogant and badly informed.
Just where have you seen
gallons of liquids
As regards vehicle screening do you mean cargo/mail trucks and /or catering trucks. And do you understand how the security protocol works? - Thought not.
Do you ever consider that if the catering/cargo/fuel/mail vehicle route was an easy way to expedite something airside then this would have been done by now? Thought not.
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Interestingly, the other day I was perusing a catalogue from an airport services training provider.
It was quite interesting to see that to be qualified to pump the **** out of an aeroplane you needed to attend a one day course. Or you could take a half-day course and be a "security" agent.
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411,
Yep., that's exactly what I do.
Elsewhere, if addressed to by the x-ray operators or if anyone so much as touches my bag, I simply demand the presence of the police, as it's them who have been trained and (in most jurisdictions) have the authority to stop and search people. Curiously, the police have always been supportive in this situations.
It was quite interesting to see that to be qualified to pump the **** out of an aeroplane you needed to attend a one day course. Or you could take a half-day course and be a "security" agent.
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411,
The quite obvious answer for pax that can (due to their particular travel arrangements) avoid travel from/to/through any UK airport
Elsewhere, if addressed to by the x-ray operators or if anyone so much as touches my bag, I simply demand the presence of the police, as it's them who have been trained and (in most jurisdictions) have the authority to stop and search people. Curiously, the police have always been supportive in this situations.
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As regards vehicle screening do you mean cargo/mail trucks and /or catering trucks. And do you understand how the security protocol works? - Thought not.
How much screening do these people go through ?????
Ex Cargo Clown 
Well put
I'm really puzzled, there simply cannot surely be the degree of naivety being shown by some posters on the security of items being brought airside.
Those that see and know how the system works understand the foolish and pointless exercise that takes place when your liquids are confiscated and so on.
By that I do not mean is a binary liquid device viable, I mean there are far easier ways of getting the liquids airside and distributing them than crews, engineers etc.
And yes, the "authorities" are well aware of these.
It's like the "emperors' clothes" or "the elephant" .......... we've all been skirting around trying to avoid saying it out loud.
There are so many holes in the effective security that these measures are nothing more than window dressing to try and look busy.
And that's why those subject to this every day get so annoyed/frustrated and fed up with it.
Now ...... where's that "banging my head against the wall smiley"
Do you know how "Known Cargo" works ???
How much screening do these people go through ?????
How much screening do these people go through ?????
I'm really puzzled, there simply cannot surely be the degree of naivety being shown by some posters on the security of items being brought airside.
Those that see and know how the system works understand the foolish and pointless exercise that takes place when your liquids are confiscated and so on.
By that I do not mean is a binary liquid device viable, I mean there are far easier ways of getting the liquids airside and distributing them than crews, engineers etc.
And yes, the "authorities" are well aware of these.
It's like the "emperors' clothes" or "the elephant" .......... we've all been skirting around trying to avoid saying it out loud.
There are so many holes in the effective security that these measures are nothing more than window dressing to try and look busy.
And that's why those subject to this every day get so annoyed/frustrated and fed up with it.
Now ...... where's that "banging my head against the wall smiley"
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I'm really puzzled, there simply cannot surely be the degree of naivety being shown by some posters on the security of items being brought airside.
The liquid Donald Duck rules are there for other purposes,,to keep our al-Quaida fear up to a acceptable (for some agencies) level
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Suspicious Pipe-Like Device Found Taped To Airport Fuel Truck
Suspicious Pipe-Like Device Found Taped To Airport Fuel Truck : Homeland Security News
Just read the above link and there needs no more comments! the next (god forbid) terror are for shore not going to come from the SLF forbidden toothpaste or water bottle.
If someone wants to bring down a Aircraft there are millions of other ways to do it, you don´t even need to be on board or air side
Buy a helicopter would be enough
Last edited by eliptic; 16th May 2009 at 10:25.
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Last week I came back from TLV (Tel-Aviv, Ben Gurion) as a SLF on an ID ticket.
A month before I had travelled from a training course in the UK, via LGW, also on an ID ticket.
Observation.
UK - ID ticket presented and met with scrutiny at check-in, to the point where I was told that "ID passengers don't have any right of boarding ahead of regular passengers" (the flight was full -1 which check in agent wanted to keep open), OK, let that one drop but said I would be happy to take the jump seat. "No way sir, that is strictly off limits". After offering to make a few phone calls to a few people I happen to work closely with (including the DFO of the airline I was about to fly with) the seat magically turned up with my name on it.
Israel - "Hello sir, window or aisle? Have a nice flight"
UK - Security a total nightmare - shoes off, belt off (I was in uniform of course). 75ml shaving foam not in plasitc bag...
"You will have to purchase a plastic bag for that."
The plastic bags are 1 GBP and conveniently sold next to the confiscation post. I refused to surrender the foam and let the numpty think that I was slightly higher up the pecking order than straight forward line pilot (which some people may consider I am). The position of security numpty changes somewhat at that point.
"Perhaps you have a re-sealable bag you can take from your main bag then?"
I take out a small ziplock bag, insert foam and hey presto, everything is suddenly safer and I am not 1 GBP worse off.
Israel - Take as much water or other liquids through as you like. Nail ckippers too.
In Israel everyone goes through security questioning before even getting to chack in. Much has been written about this questioning. Being a white caucasian male, with honest bone-fide answers to their questions, it is a simple process of answering a few personal details.
The Israelis have multiple levels of overt and covert security, aimed at catching the terrorists... and it works.
Until the UK drops it's PC BS (which lets face it, is not likely to happen), the terrorists will have an avenue through which they can sneak. Also, until the UK becomes an hospitable place again, I will continue to avoid it as much as I possibly can (the only reason I was there recently was because the course I was on was one of only 2 globally this year). I no longer use the UK to position, no longer fly any sectors out of there and try to get family to visit me here in preference to having to see them in the UK. Well done Gordon - another own goal.
RIX
Disenchanted ex-pat
A month before I had travelled from a training course in the UK, via LGW, also on an ID ticket.
Observation.
UK - ID ticket presented and met with scrutiny at check-in, to the point where I was told that "ID passengers don't have any right of boarding ahead of regular passengers" (the flight was full -1 which check in agent wanted to keep open), OK, let that one drop but said I would be happy to take the jump seat. "No way sir, that is strictly off limits". After offering to make a few phone calls to a few people I happen to work closely with (including the DFO of the airline I was about to fly with) the seat magically turned up with my name on it.
Israel - "Hello sir, window or aisle? Have a nice flight"
UK - Security a total nightmare - shoes off, belt off (I was in uniform of course). 75ml shaving foam not in plasitc bag...
"You will have to purchase a plastic bag for that."
The plastic bags are 1 GBP and conveniently sold next to the confiscation post. I refused to surrender the foam and let the numpty think that I was slightly higher up the pecking order than straight forward line pilot (which some people may consider I am). The position of security numpty changes somewhat at that point.
"Perhaps you have a re-sealable bag you can take from your main bag then?"
I take out a small ziplock bag, insert foam and hey presto, everything is suddenly safer and I am not 1 GBP worse off.
Israel - Take as much water or other liquids through as you like. Nail ckippers too.
In Israel everyone goes through security questioning before even getting to chack in. Much has been written about this questioning. Being a white caucasian male, with honest bone-fide answers to their questions, it is a simple process of answering a few personal details.
The Israelis have multiple levels of overt and covert security, aimed at catching the terrorists... and it works.
Until the UK drops it's PC BS (which lets face it, is not likely to happen), the terrorists will have an avenue through which they can sneak. Also, until the UK becomes an hospitable place again, I will continue to avoid it as much as I possibly can (the only reason I was there recently was because the course I was on was one of only 2 globally this year). I no longer use the UK to position, no longer fly any sectors out of there and try to get family to visit me here in preference to having to see them in the UK. Well done Gordon - another own goal.
RIX
Disenchanted ex-pat
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thank god for trains.....
you just wait the day, when security finds out, that a shoelace can in fact be the detonator cord...we will be embarking the plane in nickers only...and with no hand luggage
you just wait the day, when security finds out, that a shoelace can in fact be the detonator cord...we will be embarking the plane in nickers only...and with no hand luggage
elgnin
Just one last comment, really, ..
"If you know or have proof that that is not happening, why have you not passed it to those who can act on it? "
Why do you assume I didn't? - because you didn't read about it?
"If you know or have proof that that is not happening, why have you not passed it to those who can act on it? "
Why do you assume I didn't? - because you didn't read about it?
that's why those subject to this every day get so annoyed/frustrated and fed up with it.
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Wiggy
You are correct and hands up, I didn't see that you had made a post that detailed an incident and that you had reported it. Perhaps you can let me know where it is, I will be interested to read it.In my defence and as much as I read the site I would not claim to read every post and nothing in the post I responded to implied that you had posted imformation about something specific, so apologies Wiggy.
Which is understandable. But why don't you try and do something about it? One thing is for certain and that is that no amount of complaining on a message board is going to change the situation.
2. You mistake my comments for complaints ..... my only complaint, I suppose, as such is that there appear to be many (mostly from outside the industry I would guess) who seem to think that somehow what's being done is "effective security".
The problem now for the security industry that has grown up around this is that there is no effective out of the circle.
It can't be downgraded/reduced back to what existed before without implying that either the threat level has reduced or the measures don't address the threat - either of those options would seem difficult for those reponsible to accept.
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BAA´s Victory
.....there was a day I did not mind to operate or deadhead in and out of LHR. Today if feel affended when my Scheduler comes with the idea I should pass thru there for any reason. I am not sure how much Airport tax and security charges where divertet from LHR to CDG/AMS/FRA/VIE in the past because alot of people I know are avoiding LHR like the Devil the visit in the Church.
It could be a victory for the enviormental protecters as well: Less PAX, less flights in and out of LHR. Less revenue? Wake up will be late and I am sure the traffic is welcome somewhere else with open arms. A roman Emperor found way back that the Tax imposed generates a income that covers expenses. Money counts, how does the BAA-Acountant justify that one day?
Jealousy is my impression when I had to pass thru security in LHR in the past. Is it the colour of the Uniform? Give them a blue one instead of the green.
I am with 411A: Stay away as much as you can, avoids alot of personal hassle and stress.
Fly safe and land happy
NG
It could be a victory for the enviormental protecters as well: Less PAX, less flights in and out of LHR. Less revenue? Wake up will be late and I am sure the traffic is welcome somewhere else with open arms. A roman Emperor found way back that the Tax imposed generates a income that covers expenses. Money counts, how does the BAA-Acountant justify that one day?
Jealousy is my impression when I had to pass thru security in LHR in the past. Is it the colour of the Uniform? Give them a blue one instead of the green.
I am with 411A: Stay away as much as you can, avoids alot of personal hassle and stress.
Fly safe and land happy
NG
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Student in debt
Hmm, I don't have a problem with anyone quoting what I post and happy to debate it but try attributing the right quote to the right poster first huh! The first quote on your post was not from me!
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737 NG sage words with which I accord.
LHR has lost its way and I agree that it should be avoided as much as possible. However, as the UK's only major Hub this is fairly difficult. The reason that Secuirty is so cr*p at LHR and other BAA SE Airports is due to the regulatory framework that is policed by CAA. BAA have a duty to provide secuirty to standards that they effectively determine ( DFT are the body they have to satisfy but BAA go the extra mile and DFT aren't goping to tell them to do less!) the cost of this plus a margin is recovered under the airports charging structure. Therefore the more staff involved, the higher the cost the more they make in margin - easy. One suspects that the job is so monotonous and boring that only those with the lowest IQ and highest boredom thresholds will actually be capable of performing the task - not true, I have been assured by BAA. ( honest - I have a letter).
Paranoia fuels the current security drive. If a terrorist gets anything aboard it won't be through the normal security comb. BAA seem to operate the most obtuse systems and have the most impolite staff but the more you complain or identify the absurdity of some of the procedures, the tighter the noose will become. Heathrow= avoid.
LHR has lost its way and I agree that it should be avoided as much as possible. However, as the UK's only major Hub this is fairly difficult. The reason that Secuirty is so cr*p at LHR and other BAA SE Airports is due to the regulatory framework that is policed by CAA. BAA have a duty to provide secuirty to standards that they effectively determine ( DFT are the body they have to satisfy but BAA go the extra mile and DFT aren't goping to tell them to do less!) the cost of this plus a margin is recovered under the airports charging structure. Therefore the more staff involved, the higher the cost the more they make in margin - easy. One suspects that the job is so monotonous and boring that only those with the lowest IQ and highest boredom thresholds will actually be capable of performing the task - not true, I have been assured by BAA. ( honest - I have a letter).
Paranoia fuels the current security drive. If a terrorist gets anything aboard it won't be through the normal security comb. BAA seem to operate the most obtuse systems and have the most impolite staff but the more you complain or identify the absurdity of some of the procedures, the tighter the noose will become. Heathrow= avoid.