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The dawn of the 100 mile final?

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The dawn of the 100 mile final?

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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 00:10
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The dawn of the 100 mile final?

By 2013 100 European airports will allow planes to descend from cruise to land, thus saving 450 kg of C02 per landing

New Plan To Reduce Planes' C02 Emissions - CBS News

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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 00:32
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One thinks that 777 pilots might like to jack the throttles around a little on final, given recent events....
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 00:34
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Missing Zeros?

.....500,000 metric tons (515 US tons).....
I think a few zeros are missing here.
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 06:23
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Talking

I thought all airportsallowef aircraft to descend from cruise to land. Not much point in a fly-by only airport!
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 07:17
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.. airports will allow planes to descend all the way from cruising altitude to the runway in one smooth glide..
Won't need to "jack the throttles" at all, then!
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 07:35
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Just a small part of the 13,000,000 tonnes expected from PBN
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 11:11
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Is this not what we normaly do allready?
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 11:15
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So in Rome for example they're just reassigning your cruise level as you get closer are they?
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 11:17
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Well, we try. But because of airspace structure and political obstacles, we are rarely allowed to do so
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 12:01
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Since we normally cruise at FL450/470, it's going to be a bit tight for us; could we start at 150 miles please?
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 13:47
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It all seems so futile.

Since 1750 All of Mankind's CO2 inputs have increased the CO2 in the atmosphere by barely a 1/10,000th part! What on earth are these silly Green people trying to do?

ref. "Currently CO2 occupies only 1/10,000th more of the atmosphere than in 1750, Keeling & Whorf, et al. 2004"

Aircraft contribute such a small amount in reality but politically it seems they are choking the planet!

Why change anything for politicians whims?
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 13:51
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@ aviate1138, it might be futile when looking at CO2 levels, but it does save fuel, maintenance costs and probably my precious time...
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 14:24
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When you consider the nonsense that goes on in the London TMA, for instance, where we are forced to descend 50 miles prior to the TMA boundary and stooge along at FL280 or lower for 80 miles or more, then find ourselves 6000' high on the profile for our destination, I just wonder how difficult it would be to allow us to descend when we need to and power up at 5 miles on finals?
Modern Technology? Berlin Tegel landed an aircraft every fifty seconds during the Airlift.
Current best around two minutes.
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 14:34
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...London TMA...

I just wonder how difficult it would be to allow us to descend when we need to and power up at 5 miles on finals?
You are of course having a laugh? Ever seen a diagram of all the routes within 100 miles of the LTMA? How about within the LTMA itself?
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 14:57
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ref. "Currently CO2 occupies only 1/10,000th more of the atmosphere than in 1750, Keeling & Whorf, et al. 2004"
Talk about lies, damn lies and statistics.

CO2 only occupies about 3/10000ths of the atmosphere in the first place. So an increase of 1/10000th constitues a 33% increase! Quite alarming if its true.
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 15:07
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If you look at the CO2 levels here...
File:Co2-temperature-plot.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

there does seem to be a regular cycle between roughly 180 - 300 ppm every 100,000 years or so. The big question is - which will continue, the upward trend or the cycle, now that man is interfering in a big way?
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 15:11
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Since 1750 All of Mankind's CO2 inputs have increased the CO2 in the atmosphere by barely a 1/10,000th part! What on earth are these silly Green people trying to do?
Not to mention the huge absorption of the oceans, raising acidity and killing sealife - that is truly on record btw: not just pie in the sky greenery.
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 16:12
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Originally Posted by TyroPicard
there does seem to be a regular cycle between roughly 180 - 300 ppm every 100,000 years or so.
Look more carefully at the graph to see the arrow at 400 showing 'current levels'. Without doubt the level is significantly higher than for the last million years. On the other hand it has been 10x current level in the distant past - on some of theose occassions it was quite warm and others quite cold.

Who knows what the future holds - but less fuel burn and lower maintenance costs are both good things to do now.
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 17:07
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I wonder how many carbon credits I would have to come up with to offset stacking all the tree-huggers in a pile like a cord of wood, pouring petrol on them, and lighting them on fire.

I'm accepting donations to the cause.
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Old 2nd Apr 2009, 17:15
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If we British really cared about either the environment or fuel burn and maintenance costs we'd see building a third runway at LHR but capping the maximum of flights at say 70% of maximum would both reduce overall congestion and pollution in the UK.

At any time throughout the day, there may be up to 10-20 aircraft circling in the London stacks adding 10-20 minutes extra to their flight times, burning extra fuel, worsening the air quality etc.

Now as a bit of a closet tree hugger, I don't want to see virgin land concreted over nor do I want to see the polar ice caps melt so building a third runway AND capping capacity would would have the effect of reducing the total output of CO2. So this way, everyone is happy - job done - well unless you live in Sipson.
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