CargoLion lost battle......
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CargoLion lost battle......
Sadly enough, today CargoLion informed all employees, that the company has come to an end.The airline has filed for bankruptcy today, as far as i understood it, and all personal are made redundant.
A sad day for all of us.It really shows how much the EU is supporting European company's (not!!!!!!!), especially it shows how Luxembourg CAA is supporting Luxembourg based carriers, and full JAA compliant outfits (again not!!!).What's the use of even beeing a JAR carrier?I don't know.A 9G or a 9Q reg will get you further, obviously...
Well I guess it's time to go back to non EU carriers, and time to really f*uck all the EU rules and regs, looks like the only way to operate in Europe, unless you're a major.
BP, thanks for the great ride while it lasted, and hope you feel don't feel to bad.
Hope to see most of you on the yet unscheduled CargoLion bye bye Party soon......
A sad day for all of us.It really shows how much the EU is supporting European company's (not!!!!!!!), especially it shows how Luxembourg CAA is supporting Luxembourg based carriers, and full JAA compliant outfits (again not!!!).What's the use of even beeing a JAR carrier?I don't know.A 9G or a 9Q reg will get you further, obviously...
Well I guess it's time to go back to non EU carriers, and time to really f*uck all the EU rules and regs, looks like the only way to operate in Europe, unless you're a major.
BP, thanks for the great ride while it lasted, and hope you feel don't feel to bad.
Hope to see most of you on the yet unscheduled CargoLion bye bye Party soon......
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I believe in a rumor saying that BeePee personally garanteed all the pay checks for April. Yes folks, this means that the Boss is taking money from his own pocket to pay the people who worked with him !!!
I really hope the Lion will turn into a Phoenix pretty soon. I just can't believe a Spirit like that might disappear without a trace.
I really hope the Lion will turn into a Phoenix pretty soon. I just can't believe a Spirit like that might disappear without a trace.
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Damn. I'm really sorry to hear this. Give CLX a call, we always seem to be short of drivers.
http://www.cargolux.com/
Look under "contact us"; online application.
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rgds Rat
http://www.cargolux.com/
Look under "contact us"; online application.
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rgds Rat
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Sadly enough the Lion has stopped roaring... for now. Like previously stated, the Phoenix might return!!
Yes BP has been good to us and he has stated that he will pay all outstanding salaries owed to all employees. Now that's integrety.
Unfortunately, most of us are out of luck because we do not have EU licenses. The law of the jungle I guess?
What else can be said? We could all bitch, complain, rant or rave but that won't change anything. Although I will say one thing, when Cargolux wet leases a South American DC-10 to do Lux/SA, it does hurt!!!
To help out your fellow pilots that are now unemployed any leads for potential work will be greatly appreciated. E-mail Cargo Lion with details.
In the mean time gents, keep the blue side up.
Yes BP has been good to us and he has stated that he will pay all outstanding salaries owed to all employees. Now that's integrety.
Unfortunately, most of us are out of luck because we do not have EU licenses. The law of the jungle I guess?
What else can be said? We could all bitch, complain, rant or rave but that won't change anything. Although I will say one thing, when Cargolux wet leases a South American DC-10 to do Lux/SA, it does hurt!!!
To help out your fellow pilots that are now unemployed any leads for potential work will be greatly appreciated. E-mail Cargo Lion with details.
In the mean time gents, keep the blue side up.
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I'm sorry for you guys.
If I recall right you fly DC8 and DC10 so I've tried to find out which operators i know use the DC10:
Airtours Int. (UK)- www.airtours.co.uk
JMC Airlines (UK)- phone +44 (161) 489 5757
Monarch Airl. (UK)- www.monarch-airlines.com
Iberia (Sp)- www.iberia.com
Air Liberte (Fr)- phone +33(1)4979 2300
OAM Airlines (Fr)- www.aom.ch
PremiAir (DK)- www.premiair.dk
DC8:
Cygnus Air (Sp)-sorry no further info
Iberia (Sp)-see above
This is all I could find with the same types, hope you can do something with it.
If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask and I will check my Dbase for phonenumbers etc.
Good Luck
Stall
If I recall right you fly DC8 and DC10 so I've tried to find out which operators i know use the DC10:
Airtours Int. (UK)- www.airtours.co.uk
JMC Airlines (UK)- phone +44 (161) 489 5757
Monarch Airl. (UK)- www.monarch-airlines.com
Iberia (Sp)- www.iberia.com
Air Liberte (Fr)- phone +33(1)4979 2300
OAM Airlines (Fr)- www.aom.ch
PremiAir (DK)- www.premiair.dk
DC8:
Cygnus Air (Sp)-sorry no further info
Iberia (Sp)-see above
This is all I could find with the same types, hope you can do something with it.
If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask and I will check my Dbase for phonenumbers etc.
Good Luck
Stall
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Very sorry to hear this, it's never nice to see a fellow European cargo carrier go down.
We here at Aer Turas might well have vacancies on the DC8-63F coming up in the very near future, if intersted send CV's to
[email protected] for the attention of the FOM Capt Matt Kirwan. Or fax us at +353-1-8446049.
We are currently operating for TNT nightly ex DUB on the weekdays, leaving us free on weekends for our ad hoc and bloodstock charters.
Best of look eveyone whatever you all decide to do.
We here at Aer Turas might well have vacancies on the DC8-63F coming up in the very near future, if intersted send CV's to
[email protected] for the attention of the FOM Capt Matt Kirwan. Or fax us at +353-1-8446049.
We are currently operating for TNT nightly ex DUB on the weekdays, leaving us free on weekends for our ad hoc and bloodstock charters.
Best of look eveyone whatever you all decide to do.
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Now perhaps it's not the time and the place, but I must say that it's wonderful to see other aviation professionals rallying round our fallen brethren with advice, contacts, offers, etc....
So, please, please, keep it up - because (and imho), if PPRuNe serves no other purpose than to provide relevant info to aid and abet folks who find themselves in this awful plight then it'll be more then worthwhile all the time, effort, and expense that providing this service costs us - well done one and all - and the best of luck to those affected.
Ps. Uhm, just where did I put that copy Rolf Harris's 'Two Little Boys' ?!
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CrashDive
Administrator to The Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork
May you live in interesting times !
So, please, please, keep it up - because (and imho), if PPRuNe serves no other purpose than to provide relevant info to aid and abet folks who find themselves in this awful plight then it'll be more then worthwhile all the time, effort, and expense that providing this service costs us - well done one and all - and the best of luck to those affected.
Ps. Uhm, just where did I put that copy Rolf Harris's 'Two Little Boys' ?!
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CrashDive
Administrator to The Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork
May you live in interesting times !
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Bad News...
Try MK Airlines or maybe DAS Air cargo. Both have offices near LGW and operate DC8's and DC10's respectively. Don't have addresses but they should be in Flight Intl. They've just published their annual listing of airlines worldwide if you know someone who gets it. Don't know the requiements for the above airlines either but maybe they're worth a call. Good Luck
Try MK Airlines or maybe DAS Air cargo. Both have offices near LGW and operate DC8's and DC10's respectively. Don't have addresses but they should be in Flight Intl. They've just published their annual listing of airlines worldwide if you know someone who gets it. Don't know the requiements for the above airlines either but maybe they're worth a call. Good Luck
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It is an interesting point brought out by Wheelchock at the begining of this thread about non-EU carriers able to operate freely throughout Europe and most of the previous comments about this subject seem to be aimed at carriers from the USA, however whilst everybody was looking westward CAL the Israeli Cargo Air Lines has signed an agreement with the Belgian authorities to operate between Liege and New York.
If this sort of cavalier behavior by European regulatory authorities continues it will not only be companies like Cargolion that suffer.
It does not give anybody the incentive to start a freight airline in Europe as long as the EU goverments are going to lay down and roll over for any foreign carrier without a similar open skies policy in return.
Very sorry for you Cargolion guys and Bee Pee hope things get better and PDQ.
If this sort of cavalier behavior by European regulatory authorities continues it will not only be companies like Cargolion that suffer.
It does not give anybody the incentive to start a freight airline in Europe as long as the EU goverments are going to lay down and roll over for any foreign carrier without a similar open skies policy in return.
Very sorry for you Cargolion guys and Bee Pee hope things get better and PDQ.
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MaxPointers: while your post is true, let's leave that to the various past posts (and no doubt the many to come re this subject).
Anyone who has any ideas for our colleagues down the other end of the ramp...
BTW: That was a nice gesture from BeePee
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rgds Rat
Anyone who has any ideas for our colleagues down the other end of the ramp...
BTW: That was a nice gesture from BeePee
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rgds Rat
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Having been through 2 airline redundancies in 5 years I sympathise with all affected by this. Sadly, if you work for the smaller airlines it seems that you end up being knocked from pillar to post. Unfortunately the smaller airlines are usually the best to work for. All I can say is good luck to you all ....
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Why couldn't Cargolion, a EU CARRIER, get some 747-400s and the contract that BA gave to Atlas. Been seeing a lot about how unfair is it for Atlas to compete in the Euro market, but why can't EU cargo carriers provide the service that BA wants. WHY CAN'T EU CARRIERS COMPETE IN THEIR OWN MARKET??? I DON'T GET IT. Somebody please enlighten me.
P.S. - Still can't believe that BALPA allows BA to outsource THEIR jobs.
[This message has been edited by Roadtrip (edited 02 April 2001).]
P.S. - Still can't believe that BALPA allows BA to outsource THEIR jobs.
[This message has been edited by Roadtrip (edited 02 April 2001).]
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The people working for Cargo Lion lived under a dark cloud for the past six months. Did they get the contract and if so, when would the money come in? Would they get paid on time, and as it turned out when they didn't for five months straight, could they personally keep on maxing out their VISA cards until the salary hit the bank account? Should they look for a new job or be loyal to the Lion?
Most of them kept the faith, month after month -- even though each month brought more bad news, and the loss of their AOC last month should have been the final nail in the coffin. But even then, they believed that no matter how bad it was, how dark those clouds were, that up above was blue sky and Cargo Lion could be turned around.
Cargo Lion had many outstanding personnel. Pick them up. You won't be disappointed with their talent, commitment -- or character.
Most of them kept the faith, month after month -- even though each month brought more bad news, and the loss of their AOC last month should have been the final nail in the coffin. But even then, they believed that no matter how bad it was, how dark those clouds were, that up above was blue sky and Cargo Lion could be turned around.
Cargo Lion had many outstanding personnel. Pick them up. You won't be disappointed with their talent, commitment -- or character.
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Unfortunately, Upwiththebirds MK Airlines will only employ you if you're Zimbabwean and DAS Air also prefers East Africans.
Strange, really, as both of those carriers are to all intents and purposes UK based, with administration, operations and technical bases here - yet thanks to their third world Flag of Convenience operations they fall outside the control of the JAA/CAA and regrettably the DETR doesn not seem to want to take action!
This means that their 'red tape' and compliance costs are much lower than those of European carriers - and now, once again, we have seen the demise of a first rate European airline thanks to these cowboys.
At least ATLAS is run - and the aircraft are flown - by true professionals that comply with their regulations!
Cargolion has now joined the roll of honour that includes such British carriers as Anglo Cargo, Tradewinds, British Cargo, Pelican Air Transport, Scimitar, Redcoat etc etc
Strange, really, as both of those carriers are to all intents and purposes UK based, with administration, operations and technical bases here - yet thanks to their third world Flag of Convenience operations they fall outside the control of the JAA/CAA and regrettably the DETR doesn not seem to want to take action!
This means that their 'red tape' and compliance costs are much lower than those of European carriers - and now, once again, we have seen the demise of a first rate European airline thanks to these cowboys.
At least ATLAS is run - and the aircraft are flown - by true professionals that comply with their regulations!
Cargolion has now joined the roll of honour that includes such British carriers as Anglo Cargo, Tradewinds, British Cargo, Pelican Air Transport, Scimitar, Redcoat etc etc
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It really doesn't matter whether MK and the others can operate and do what ever they want out of Europe.If I was Mike Krueger, I would do the same thing.The thing what does strike me, is that we had our AOC pulled by the Burger CAA, without a real clear reason.
This action caused indeed the airline to end up in the sh*t.It just proves that it's really a waste of time and money to be a full JAA/JAR compliant airline, and also proves that you will not get any help from the EU.
The ending of CargoLion isn't the fault of other company's really.It's a combination of a lot of other things, including the well willingness of the Burger CAA.
Hope to see all you guys soon in Lux for this party!
This action caused indeed the airline to end up in the sh*t.It just proves that it's really a waste of time and money to be a full JAA/JAR compliant airline, and also proves that you will not get any help from the EU.
The ending of CargoLion isn't the fault of other company's really.It's a combination of a lot of other things, including the well willingness of the Burger CAA.
Hope to see all you guys soon in Lux for this party!
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The Guvnor
"This means that their 'red tape' and compliance costs are much lower than those of European carriers - and now, once again, we have seen the demise of a first rate European airline thanks to these cowboys."
As a businessman the exploitation of opportunities is what makes a success the business. Do not blame MK for the lack of legistation which allows him to operate out of the UK, within the law and in compliance of their AOC. Until the DETR changes things they are totally legitimate and work damn hard for their success. To call them "cowboys" on that basis says much for your character and shows how little you know of their operation.
My sympathies to all at The Lion - may they roar again soon.
[This message has been edited by Greek God (edited 02 April 2001).]
"This means that their 'red tape' and compliance costs are much lower than those of European carriers - and now, once again, we have seen the demise of a first rate European airline thanks to these cowboys."
As a businessman the exploitation of opportunities is what makes a success the business. Do not blame MK for the lack of legistation which allows him to operate out of the UK, within the law and in compliance of their AOC. Until the DETR changes things they are totally legitimate and work damn hard for their success. To call them "cowboys" on that basis says much for your character and shows how little you know of their operation.
My sympathies to all at The Lion - may they roar again soon.
[This message has been edited by Greek God (edited 02 April 2001).]
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Coco Chanel you hit the nail on the head: "to leave or be loyal" in the end loyalty didn't pay.
Guvnor, the real problem was not MK, or others of that ilk, but internal. And all the internal problems can be laid at the door of one person - the president. Even though others may have made poor management decisions, ultimately, just like in the aircraft, the captain is responsible. In this case the Cargo Lion captain is the president.
Who in their right mind would purchase a DC10 with no firm contract? Which business when faced with recession does not cut back on costs by reducing staff. OK it may be nice and sentimental not to lay off a single employee but now everyone is laid off.
Cargo Lion had contract after contract with many airlines. Virtually all of them were lost due to short sighted maintenance leading to AOGs leading to loss of contracts.
Combine this with a commercial department that never left the office (until the last lot, who were too late to have a chance) and considered PR a dirty word.
However the biggest problems were the "head in the sand synrome" and the "I know better than everyone else" syndrome. Well we all know the outcome of these management policies. On top of this was the presidents inability to fire employees for incompetence but this was probably in itself the final incompetence.
Guvnor, the real problem was not MK, or others of that ilk, but internal. And all the internal problems can be laid at the door of one person - the president. Even though others may have made poor management decisions, ultimately, just like in the aircraft, the captain is responsible. In this case the Cargo Lion captain is the president.
Who in their right mind would purchase a DC10 with no firm contract? Which business when faced with recession does not cut back on costs by reducing staff. OK it may be nice and sentimental not to lay off a single employee but now everyone is laid off.
Cargo Lion had contract after contract with many airlines. Virtually all of them were lost due to short sighted maintenance leading to AOGs leading to loss of contracts.
Combine this with a commercial department that never left the office (until the last lot, who were too late to have a chance) and considered PR a dirty word.
However the biggest problems were the "head in the sand synrome" and the "I know better than everyone else" syndrome. Well we all know the outcome of these management policies. On top of this was the presidents inability to fire employees for incompetence but this was probably in itself the final incompetence.