Turkish Pilot skills crash in AMS case
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ch.
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turkish Pilot skills crash in AMS case
Basic pilot skills (or lack there of) brought down the Turkish Airliner that crashed last week in Amsterdam Schiphol airport. Dutch "NTSB" investigators concluded. The pilot flying was the First Officer, who did not recover a throttle idle situation while on glideslope. As the aircraft try to keep on profile the Captain (left seat) did not correct the situation a hand. At stick shaker full power was initiated, abeit too late. Also in the cockpit was a third pilot,first officer.
During this critical phase of flight no one was flying the airplane.
Unfortunately lives were lost and many will question the findings as the pilots were seen as heroes in their homeland. However the chief investigator specifically mentioned that there were no actions from the cockpit indcating that tey tried to avoid houses or roads.
Pilots need to fly not look at automation at work. How can a TRE captain let that happen on approach. You can blame Boeing weather etc., but flying is flying and stalling an aircraft regardless will come down ....
One more airliner I won't fly !
During this critical phase of flight no one was flying the airplane.
Unfortunately lives were lost and many will question the findings as the pilots were seen as heroes in their homeland. However the chief investigator specifically mentioned that there were no actions from the cockpit indcating that tey tried to avoid houses or roads.
Pilots need to fly not look at automation at work. How can a TRE captain let that happen on approach. You can blame Boeing weather etc., but flying is flying and stalling an aircraft regardless will come down ....
One more airliner I won't fly !
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dre's mum's house
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you have link to the report or is this your own interpretation?
Perhaps removing the "Turkish" would be prudent: I don't see that nationality has any bearing on any accident unless the investigators conclude that there was a significant cultural issue.
Perhaps removing the "Turkish" would be prudent: I don't see that nationality has any bearing on any accident unless the investigators conclude that there was a significant cultural issue.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps its not the culture of the pilots... but the culture of the airline which has nothing to do with the culture of the country.
The bottome line is that the entire crew, including the third man in the cockpit screwed the pooch.
Reminiscent of the Flying Tiger 747 that crashed into a hill while on approach into Kuala Lumpur many years ago. Four pilots in the cockpit arguing about an approach while the GPWS is screaming in the back ground. Who was flying the jet then? The A/P of course! It didn’t care where the crew was aiming the jet via the AFCS. It followed the crews’ orders right to the end. The fortunate outcome with the Flying Tiger accident was that there were no innocent passengers killed by an entire crew blatantly remiss of their SOPs.
Again Its not the culture of the pilots, but the culture within the airline.
The bottome line is that the entire crew, including the third man in the cockpit screwed the pooch.
Reminiscent of the Flying Tiger 747 that crashed into a hill while on approach into Kuala Lumpur many years ago. Four pilots in the cockpit arguing about an approach while the GPWS is screaming in the back ground. Who was flying the jet then? The A/P of course! It didn’t care where the crew was aiming the jet via the AFCS. It followed the crews’ orders right to the end. The fortunate outcome with the Flying Tiger accident was that there were no innocent passengers killed by an entire crew blatantly remiss of their SOPs.
Again Its not the culture of the pilots, but the culture within the airline.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: FFM
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Racisme????
Dear Permafrost, it strikes me as odd that you should label someones comment concerning not flying a certain outfit anymore as racist. I will never fly on any airline if they are known to have operational/technical or other safety related issues. Just imagine that a commenter who writes he will never fly air suriname because of a cock up at zanderije is from Amsterdam. You sir, will label him a racist. Funny enough there is a 80-95% chance that this poster will have African roots. You sir are by no means racist oh no, You sir are just plain ignorant and bellicose. Kind regards, NSC.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AEP
Age: 80
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eric -
xxx
I can speak Dutch (as other people here), so publish the source you use for these facts you present - and I would appreciate you also refrain from lack of respect of pilots of any given nation. There are excellent pilots, and some less qualified, in all nations of the world, including yours. As usual, "pilot error" is claimed here. But the CVR certainly is unable to translate the exact circumstances of the approach and accident.
xxx
Sad contrails, my friend.
xxx
I can speak Dutch (as other people here), so publish the source you use for these facts you present - and I would appreciate you also refrain from lack of respect of pilots of any given nation. There are excellent pilots, and some less qualified, in all nations of the world, including yours. As usual, "pilot error" is claimed here. But the CVR certainly is unable to translate the exact circumstances of the approach and accident.
xxx
Sad contrails, my friend.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok guys and girls - this is not a forum to discuss who is racist and who is not. I personally could not give a monkeys as I come on here to read and contribute to aviation related matters. 
Can I suggest this is merged into the Turkish Airlines Crash thread, and keep it under the one hat rather than have two on the go?
Can I suggest this is merged into the Turkish Airlines Crash thread, and keep it under the one hat rather than have two on the go?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Show me an airline without a cockup, and I'll show you a captain who will treat his crew for dinner and drinks out his pocket too. And we are talking about a heavy crewed 747 group of people too.
Bears out D.P. Davies comments in Handling the Big Jets that whilst actual stalls are low probability on jets, stall warnings are more like 1 in 100,000 flights (working on memory here) so very important for pilots to have regular training in recognition and recovery.
If the evidence that we have been presented with is correct then there was clearly a lack of monitoring. Never mind Vref - 40, the mere fact that the speed is Vref or a tad below should have got the PM (and the safety pilot) shouting AIRSPEED!!
No level of automation and/or failure modes is going to keep you out of trouble for ever. We are talking BASIC AIRMANSHIP here - SOMEBODY has to be "minding shop".
If the evidence that we have been presented with is correct then there was clearly a lack of monitoring. Never mind Vref - 40, the mere fact that the speed is Vref or a tad below should have got the PM (and the safety pilot) shouting AIRSPEED!!
No level of automation and/or failure modes is going to keep you out of trouble for ever. We are talking BASIC AIRMANSHIP here - SOMEBODY has to be "minding shop".
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
before you go making these sorts of comments fireflybob why don't you wait for the investigation to conclude? There is more news out today that there was a altimeter problem and the aircraft had a history of this.
Any kind of instrument problem can be very confusing especially height, attitude and speed information, imc close to the ground and about to stall.... whats right whats wrong.......it all happens very fast....
The CVR will be interesting listening.
Don't blame them yet, just hope that your never in that situation...
before you go making these sorts of comments fireflybob why don't you wait for the investigation to conclude? There is more news out today that there was a altimeter problem and the aircraft had a history of this.
Any kind of instrument problem can be very confusing especially height, attitude and speed information, imc close to the ground and about to stall.... whats right whats wrong.......it all happens very fast....
The CVR will be interesting listening.
Don't blame them yet, just hope that your never in that situation...
