Helios Crash
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 190
Likes: 1
From: Earth
A quick google search gives the story, but it looks like the names are not yet in the public domain. Can't be a pleasant time for anyone with links to the accident.
Trend News : Cypriot prosecutors to charge five over 2005 Helios air crash
http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main...42300&cat_id=1
Trend News : Cypriot prosecutors to charge five over 2005 Helios air crash
http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main...42300&cat_id=1
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: Deep South, UK
You must have a cold then
.
I used to work with one of the individuals involved in this incident and rate him as one of the very best in the business. I therefore have an interest in who they are gunning for. If one of the accused turns out to be the individual that I know then we really are in a sorry state!
. I used to work with one of the individuals involved in this incident and rate him as one of the very best in the business. I therefore have an interest in who they are gunning for. If one of the accused turns out to be the individual that I know then we really are in a sorry state!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: here and everywhere
It's true, official, and no journo trash!
The fact is that the autorney general is bringing charges to these individuals!
It is a whole different story if they will be convicted or not!
Personally I wasn't expecting charges to be brought forward as I think is difficult to make a case of this incident!
Nevertheless it's happening and I'll be interested to see how it will evolve!
The fact is that the autorney general is bringing charges to these individuals!
It is a whole different story if they will be convicted or not!
Personally I wasn't expecting charges to be brought forward as I think is difficult to make a case of this incident!
Nevertheless it's happening and I'll be interested to see how it will evolve!
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,842
Likes: 328
From: Hertfordshire, UK.
I don't suppose there's a chance that politicians are trying to show that they are doing something? Must be an election due.
As someone said to all politicians: Don't just do something - Stand There.
As someone said to all politicians: Don't just do something - Stand There.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 745
Likes: 0
From: Too far from the equator
Just as long as the poor relatives of the deceased are not going to be fleeced by the 'ambulance-chasers ' and lose their homes ( as well as their loved ones ) to pay these leaches .
Earlier talk of suing Boeing was irresponsible - you do not take on an American powerhouse ( and , by default , the White House ) unless you have unlimited funds .
I take it the Cypriot tax-payers are going to pay for this 'trial' ?
Earlier talk of suing Boeing was irresponsible - you do not take on an American powerhouse ( and , by default , the White House ) unless you have unlimited funds .
I take it the Cypriot tax-payers are going to pay for this 'trial' ?
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 200
Likes: 4
From: London, UK
Where do you draw the line of blame - the pilots ignoring the cabin altitude warning, the designer of the aircraft for using the same system as takeoff config warning, the maintenance who set the outflow valves manually.. like all things a number of errors occur which separately would not have caused an issue.. I do not understand why any individual persons could get blamed for this incident.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 745
Likes: 0
From: Too far from the equator
This is all so incredibly sad . The accident so traumatised the entire country , not sure it will ever go away , even if they do prosecute somebody .
All I know is , that if the crew had finally woken up to what the problem was , initiated an emergency descent etc and landed safely , then they would have been held entirely responsible for the event . Performing any checklist wrongly is going to be punished by an inquiry . If the cockpit preparation had been performed correctly , that aircraft would probably still be flying to this day .
Obviously , the crew cannot be disciplined having paid the ultimate price , so it seems that someone else must be held responsible.
I have had dealings with Lasham engineering since it was DanAirs engineering base , subsequently also with Astraeus , and have never had any doubts whatsoever.
As a Captain , whenever I have entered a flight deck and discovered that the aircraft has just left the hangar , I have made sure that the cockpit prep is very thorough indeed. This has even been at some of the worlds major airlines
whose engineering I trust completely - their job is NOT to set up the flight deck for me and my crew , they may have been under commercial pressure to get the aircraft released and back in service , some switches do get missed , packs are off to allow work underneath the aircraft etc . If I have found a switch not in the preflight position I have never made a song and dance about it , it is my responsibility to ensure that it is correct before take-off.
Having heard from various ex-Helios cabin crew about how they were abused by the public in supermarkets etc , while they were still grieving themselves over the loss of colleagues and friends , then I fully expect others will get it in the neck . If this finally brought the episode to a close , I might concur somewhat , but I suspect the mud-slinging will never stop.
All I know is , that if the crew had finally woken up to what the problem was , initiated an emergency descent etc and landed safely , then they would have been held entirely responsible for the event . Performing any checklist wrongly is going to be punished by an inquiry . If the cockpit preparation had been performed correctly , that aircraft would probably still be flying to this day .
Obviously , the crew cannot be disciplined having paid the ultimate price , so it seems that someone else must be held responsible.
I have had dealings with Lasham engineering since it was DanAirs engineering base , subsequently also with Astraeus , and have never had any doubts whatsoever.
As a Captain , whenever I have entered a flight deck and discovered that the aircraft has just left the hangar , I have made sure that the cockpit prep is very thorough indeed. This has even been at some of the worlds major airlines
whose engineering I trust completely - their job is NOT to set up the flight deck for me and my crew , they may have been under commercial pressure to get the aircraft released and back in service , some switches do get missed , packs are off to allow work underneath the aircraft etc . If I have found a switch not in the preflight position I have never made a song and dance about it , it is my responsibility to ensure that it is correct before take-off.
Having heard from various ex-Helios cabin crew about how they were abused by the public in supermarkets etc , while they were still grieving themselves over the loss of colleagues and friends , then I fully expect others will get it in the neck . If this finally brought the episode to a close , I might concur somewhat , but I suspect the mud-slinging will never stop.
Joined: Jan 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 38
Likes: 62
From: The Smaller Antipode
As a Captain , whenever I have entered a flight deck and discovered that the aircraft has just left the hangar , I have made sure that the cockpit prep is very thorough indeed.
Y'e canna be toooo carrreful - I was once taught.
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
Likes: 2
From: north of barlu
The maintenance staff are not trained to "set up" the aircraft for flight and so CAN NOT be responsable for the switch positions of an aircraft that is offerd for service.
The sujestion that the maintenance staff are responsable for this accccident is not sustanable, after all the logical conclusion of this would be demanding the maintenance guy to set the FMC and all the navigation radios.
The bottom line is that the fault for the flight deck not being set up properly lies with the crew, just as not knowing what the warning horn was telling them and not stopping the climb when they got the warning.
( I offer this opinion as a 73NG rated person)
The sujestion that the maintenance staff are responsable for this accccident is not sustanable, after all the logical conclusion of this would be demanding the maintenance guy to set the FMC and all the navigation radios.
The bottom line is that the fault for the flight deck not being set up properly lies with the crew, just as not knowing what the warning horn was telling them and not stopping the climb when they got the warning.
( I offer this opinion as a 73NG rated person)
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 204
Likes: 13
From: UK
A + C,
If the Helios Operations Manual (engineering) did not include a work schedule that included returning the offending 'lever' to ON then I grant you, Helios are more culpable than the engineer that made the mistake but to claim maintenance staff are not responsible, is off the mark. They were part of the chain of error. The engineer in this instance has lived to carry some of that guilt but the crew haven't.
Engineers are not grease monkeys. They are responsible professionals who work to strict regimes that should include returning aircraft to service in a condition that is safe, functional and consistent. This is not about setting altimeters or programming FMC's is it?
The maintenance staff are not trained to "set up" the aircraft for flight and so CAN NOT be responsable (sic) for the switch positions of an aircraft that is offerd (sic) for service.
Engineers are not grease monkeys. They are responsible professionals who work to strict regimes that should include returning aircraft to service in a condition that is safe, functional and consistent. This is not about setting altimeters or programming FMC's is it?
