What 's going on???
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What 's going on???
I am sure that I have read in these postings rumours of pilot shortage, pay increases of 30%and pilots taking action to improve their lot after years of falling behind in the pay stakes.
BALPA today sent me a copy of AIRWAVES. It is reported that Monarch have settled for 3.5%, Air 2000 3.75%. Britannia are negotiating a deal which would give them 3.2%.
I really believed that as a group we were going to take advantage of the present climate.
Looks like another good opportunity missed for pilots to improve their lot.
Never mind we might get another chance in ten years.
Are there any Monarch, Air 2000 or Britannia pilots out there who can share the secret of how to "negotiate" such a pay deal?
[This message has been edited by kippa (edited 22 May 2001).]
BALPA today sent me a copy of AIRWAVES. It is reported that Monarch have settled for 3.5%, Air 2000 3.75%. Britannia are negotiating a deal which would give them 3.2%.
I really believed that as a group we were going to take advantage of the present climate.
Looks like another good opportunity missed for pilots to improve their lot.
Never mind we might get another chance in ten years.
Are there any Monarch, Air 2000 or Britannia pilots out there who can share the secret of how to "negotiate" such a pay deal?
[This message has been edited by kippa (edited 22 May 2001).]
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Not enough! I am worth what the market can be made to pay. Law of supply and demand and all that. Pilots in short supply= well paid pilots. The fact that we are hamstrung by a seniority system which prevents pilots voting with their feet means that we have to have strong UNION REPRESENTATION.
How much is a Financial trader worth? His worth is measured by not screwing up on multi million pound deals. Pilots are employed for as long as they don't screw up in multi million pound aircraft with all attendant third party risks.Financial Traders get paid well to keep them there when there is a scarcity of that type of experience. Sure when the bad times come he is unemployed...Just like pilots.
Unlike other professions, pilots in the UK never seem to benifit from the times when their skills are in short supply.
Why is it that in USA and in Europe pilots don't ask the question "What are we worth?" and try to quantify an answer, they know they are worth what they can make the market pay. That is considerably more than RPI + 1/2%.
[This message has been edited by kippa (edited 22 May 2001).]
How much is a Financial trader worth? His worth is measured by not screwing up on multi million pound deals. Pilots are employed for as long as they don't screw up in multi million pound aircraft with all attendant third party risks.Financial Traders get paid well to keep them there when there is a scarcity of that type of experience. Sure when the bad times come he is unemployed...Just like pilots.
Unlike other professions, pilots in the UK never seem to benifit from the times when their skills are in short supply.
Why is it that in USA and in Europe pilots don't ask the question "What are we worth?" and try to quantify an answer, they know they are worth what they can make the market pay. That is considerably more than RPI + 1/2%.
[This message has been edited by kippa (edited 22 May 2001).]
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I belive the reason is that in most other countries, theworkers got the balls to fight for a good contract, most brit pilots are just happy to be able to fly an airplane, i:e they sign any piece of crap contract they get offered, as long as they get to fly a shiny jet.
How else would you explain it?
How else would you explain it?
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Well said Kippa,
The current settlements are pathetic.
Can anyone tell me what a 50% rise would add to overall operating and hence ticket costs?
The airlines seem to be able to absorb doubling of fuel costs, but continue to plead poverty when it comes to their staff.
If we don’t make the most of the current opportunity we will only have ourselves to blame.
The current settlements are pathetic.
Can anyone tell me what a 50% rise would add to overall operating and hence ticket costs?
The airlines seem to be able to absorb doubling of fuel costs, but continue to plead poverty when it comes to their staff.
If we don’t make the most of the current opportunity we will only have ourselves to blame.
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Profits at BA are up 2900%,(just goes to show how little we made before I worked for them but I digress) If BALPA can negotiate 10% I'd still say that they were aload of **** but I might be persuaded that the current MD deserved to keep his job.
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Graham McPherson
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Graham McPherson
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Might it be that in general US pilots join the majors later in life and as such are not prepared to accept a lower value contract, wheras in the UK there is a lot of lower time pilots joining the majors, and when your 25 you'll accept anything to fly the shiny stuff.
Just guessing mind.
Just guessing mind.
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Kippa - good observations. I felt exactly the same when reading Airwaves.
The other thing that bugs me, is this persisitent comparison of "negotiated increases" with RPI.
What really counts is a comparison with average earnings. Remember earnings run typically 2% above RPI - so the pilots at the companies quoted ( add Virgin to that list too) are actiually falling behind other professions!
The other thing that bugs me, is this persisitent comparison of "negotiated increases" with RPI.
What really counts is a comparison with average earnings. Remember earnings run typically 2% above RPI - so the pilots at the companies quoted ( add Virgin to that list too) are actiually falling behind other professions!
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To provide a potted version of what has happened at Britannia, the CC put to the blokes a deal which provides an increase of 3.2% plus some other "smokescreen" goodies on which we were asked to vote. The result was a clear "NO".
Instead of then asking the blokes what it was that they required the CC went around the country telling the pilots that it really was a terrific deal and that we were making a dreadful mistake! Following some minor tinkering which has resulted in pretty much the same offer we are to be balloted again.
Sadly, I think they might have convinced just enough people to get away with it. And I'm going to have to put away my "Let's go on strike" poster for another year!
AND they are not prepared to backdate the deal to Jan 1 (the date that any deal should have been sorted by) because, I suppose, it's too difficult.
With the CC doing the managers' job, who needs Balpa?
Instead of then asking the blokes what it was that they required the CC went around the country telling the pilots that it really was a terrific deal and that we were making a dreadful mistake! Following some minor tinkering which has resulted in pretty much the same offer we are to be balloted again.
Sadly, I think they might have convinced just enough people to get away with it. And I'm going to have to put away my "Let's go on strike" poster for another year!
AND they are not prepared to backdate the deal to Jan 1 (the date that any deal should have been sorted by) because, I suppose, it's too difficult.
With the CC doing the managers' job, who needs Balpa?
