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Swiss Air crew "not licensed" incident at TLV

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Old 17th Feb 2009, 15:27
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Question Swiss Air crew "not licensed" incident at TLV

Swissair flight held at Ben Gurion as copilot lacks valid license
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 16:26
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Did he/she just forget it at home?

Also do all of you carry your logbook wit you whenyou fly?
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 16:31
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According to a Swiss newspaper (tagesanzeiger.ch: Nichts verpassen), the FO operates both A320 and A330 according to Swiss International's MFF (Mixed Fleet Flying) concept, and he (as well as the crew monitoring system) failed to notice he had not done the required number of approaches/landings in the last 3 month, thus invalidating his A320 rating.
Luckily, the crew noticed the problem on their own, and the captain decided to disembark the passengers. VERY embarassing, but I can't help but feel a little proud of them for playing fair instead of sneaking home and hoping nobody would notice
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 16:33
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Licence, passport, ALWAYS. Logbook? Nah.
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 16:35
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eagle21..

Yeah, I do carry my (updated) logbook on every single flight. But then, I'm a corporate weenie, and responsible to keep my paperwork current.
Back when I was an FO for Swissair, the company was approved by the FOCA to log our flight time, so we neither carried nor filled our logbooks.
Dunno what the regs says these days... anybody?
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 16:42
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SLF Here,

It might sound stupid...
We have to assume that the pilot did fly to TLV...was he licensed to fly to TLV?
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 16:53
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LogBook??

Does anyone know of any countries requiring Pilots to carry Log Book as for Passport and license?
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 16:57
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SLF Here,

It might sound stupid...
We have to assume that the pilot did fly to TLV...was he licensed to fly to TLV?
Apparently that rotation is usually flown with an A330 and with one of those did the FO arrive in TLV the day prior to the flight in question. Due to low load factor the airplane planned for his return trip was an A320 in which he was not current in.
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 16:59
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at least only 67 pax as stated in the Tagesanzeiger
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 17:18
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Apparently that rotation is usually flown with an A330 and with one of those did the FO arrive in TLV the day prior to the flight in question. Due to low load factor the airplane planned for his return trip was an A320 in which he was not current in.
Kudos to the crew to notice that before take off
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 17:27
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validation

Why did they not just do a couple of circuits while the pax were having a coffee in the terminal and hey presto he is current again. Guess they can't think outside the box.
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 17:28
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How is he going to renew his type rating now? Can he fly an empty aircraft around for a landing or he has to take the exams again?

Rwy in Sight
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 17:35
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Actually, doing the next 3 landings with a TRI should do it, if I remember correctly....
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 18:07
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Is it the co-pilot's task to ensure that enough of the appropriate manouvres/landings are completed to maintain type rating ? Or does this vary from company to company with some companies taking this task on board themselves.

If it is the co-pilots task, apart from embarassment what would be the likely reprocussions of failure to comply to maintain type rating ?

Cheers
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 19:37
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Hawker: Thinking out of the box

This has nothing to do with not being able to "think out of the box". You can go and fly circuits to become current again, but you need a TRI next to you to legally do that. Probably this captain was a regular line captain. So no choice here.
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 19:42
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CAA used to recomend not carrying your logbook incase something happened which destroyed the log book. Which would mean that they would be unable to check on experience flight times etc.,
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 19:51
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Quick Belfast and back, many years ago, three crew Trident, walking out to the aircraft the "one-ringer" turned to me and suggested "I'll do a manual throttle approach and landing on the way out and use auto throttle on the way back".

Assuming he had just cleared training I suggested he should ask the SFO, as the senior copilot, which sector he wanted to operate as P2 and which as P3. His response?... "but I'm cleared P3 and the training captain yesterday suggested I needed to do more manual throttle approaches"

Realising he was not cleared we did a 180 and returned to crew report. I asked the crew controller if he had completed his training. The controller, opening the training cabinet and thumbing through the files suggested "If he wasn't cleared there would be a training file here..."

At that point he found it!!
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 20:04
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Does anyone know of any countries requiring Pilots to carry Log Book as for Passport and license?
In some parts of the world you are not allowed to carry your logbook with you if you are operating the service. Just like the aircraft logbooks cannot be carried on the aircraft they relate to. If there is a crash and all is destroyed there is no legal record of the pilots hours.
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 21:17
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These days where you log your hours electronically, you don't have a logbook anymore. Or do you carry your PC with you?

Dani
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 21:21
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Swissair flight held at Ben Gurion as copilot lacks valid license
btw it's not Swissair it's Swiss. Swissair has gone 2003.
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