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Thomas Cook cracked Windshield A320 - Full emergency at BRS 9/2/09

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Thomas Cook cracked Windshield A320 - Full emergency at BRS 9/2/09

Old 11th Feb 2009, 19:49
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JW411

If ATC initiate a "Full Emergency", it means the outside services are deployed in addition to the airfield services. They often turn up just after it`s all over, having made a full "blues and twos" dash to the airfield.
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Old 11th Feb 2009, 20:11
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Many windows fail due to failure of the Window Heat Control box. Previous posters have correctly stated that this is not an emergency circumstance by itself. However, if you are sitting behind one, remember that window heat is required to keep a bird from penetrating it.
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Old 11th Feb 2009, 20:50
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My experience with the crazed, but otherwise intact, windshield was over 40 years ago, but I seem to recall that we had a reduced speed limit if the windshield heat was not working properly. Aircraft was a P-3A. Lockheed was very specific about the reduced windshield strength without heat.
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Old 11th Feb 2009, 21:10
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The only possible cause for a return would be arcing, uncontrolled or controlled late.
A shattered layer is no cause for a return, even less for an emergency...But I haven't probably thought of every eventuality.
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Old 11th Feb 2009, 21:16
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Ranger 1

Seen three occurences like this in the past few years, both aircraft returned safely no major crisis.
What happened to number three? Sorry, noone else picked you up on that yet and having read the whole thread, I'm bored.....

Rgds
The Moss
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Old 11th Feb 2009, 21:43
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The only possible cause for a return would be arcing, uncontrolled or controlled late.
A shattered layer is no cause for a return, even less for an emergency...But I haven't probably thought of every eventuality.
Did you think of checking the QRH?
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Old 11th Feb 2009, 21:51
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cluckingbell
Did you think of checking the QRH?
As I am at the origin of that QRH insertion, that's the reason why I phrased the sentence in the way you saw.
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Old 11th Feb 2009, 22:13
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2 pages due to a cracked windshield. This is coming ever closer to being the Daily Mail.

remember that window heat is required to keep a bird from penetrating it.
No it is not.
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Old 11th Feb 2009, 22:37
  #29 (permalink)  
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It helps though.
 
Old 11th Feb 2009, 22:56
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'Oh no it's a 'Non starter' today!!

Good image - Mike Hammer.

Seriously, I can see another episode of TCX Mayday V Pan coming up soon!!
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Old 11th Feb 2009, 23:25
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It seems to me the A320/319 has an inordinate amount of windshield failures. I have had two in one year and when checking with maintenance, there was a history of 11 in a three month period.

Never experienced it in the B727 or DC10.
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Old 11th Feb 2009, 23:41
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Typical forward flight station window is made up of six (6) layers.

Starting from the outside these layers are:

1] Glass faceplate.

2] Window heat film.

3] Layer of Polyvinyl Butyral (PVB).

4] Layer of Stretched Acrylic.

5] Second layer of PVB.

6] Second layer of Stretched Acrylic.

The outer glass layer is non-structural but provides an abrasion resistant surface for the wipers and a surface for attaching the window heat film.
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Old 12th Feb 2009, 00:47
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I have had two cracked windshields flying airliners, both were non events. The checklist for outer pane is usually no restrictions, 250 knots below 10.000 ft. One time the window heat was arcing across the windshield at night so turned it off. It is not an emergency at all.
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Old 12th Feb 2009, 00:47
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Well, I understand the engineering required for an aircraft windshield but, unless you have been sitting behind one at Fl410 over the Pacific at night and had a failure you can't even begin to understand how it feels. At least in the C141 the windshield Pops loudly and the heating circut arcs and lights up the cockpit. Not a very reasuriing experiance, even though I will admit the windshied did not yield. But since we had no pasengers we did raise the cabin abit to make us fell like we did somehing to help keep it from failing. It did not help that it was only a few months after a friend had this experiance in a CV580......

NTSB Identification: DEN84FA021 .
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 22647.
Scheduled 14 CFR operation of REPUBLIC AIRLINES (D.B.A. operation of REPUBLIC AIRLINES )
Accident occurred Sunday, November 06, 1983 in SIOUX FALLS, SD
Aircraft: CONVAIR 580, registration: N7517U
Injuries: 1 Serious, 1 Minor, 33 Uninjured.
THE ACFT COLLIDED WITH A BIRD DURING THE LANDING APPROACH AT NIGHT. THE CAPTAIN WHO WAS FLYING THE ACFT WAS STRUCK IN THE FACE BY THE BIRD AND FLYING GLASS. THE CO-PLT COMPLETED THE LANDING DUE TO INCAPACITATION OF THE CAPT. INVESTIGATIONREVEALED THE WINDSHIELD HAD BEEN PENETRATED BY A TWO POUND BIRD. CERTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS SPECIFY THAT THE WINDSHIELD WITHSTAND, WITHOUT PENETRATION, THE IMPACT OF A FOUR POUND BIRD AT CRUISE SPEED. THE ACFT WAS MOVING AT ABOUT 190 KTS AT THE TIME OF THE IMPACT. THE LANDING WAS COMPLETED BY THE CO-PLT WITHOUT FURTHER INCIDENT.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
OBJECT..BIRD(S)

Contributing Factors
LIGHT CONDITION..DARK NIGHT
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Old 12th Feb 2009, 10:41
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ABO944

And at what height were you between Sumburgh and Kirkwall?

Great days when you could get seaspray on the windscreen - probably frowned on now!!

The worst thing about cracked windscreens, in my opinion, is the noise when it happens.
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Old 12th Feb 2009, 10:45
  #36 (permalink)  

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Ballymoss;
Well spotted,
If my memory serves me correctly two of the three were due to windscreen heat issues as covered by repariit in his earlier post.
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Old 12th Feb 2009, 11:07
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Middle of the night, over central Africa...it sounded like a rifle shot, the outer layer of glass shattered, First Officer ducked, then had a look with his flashlight, not a pretty sight.
Did we have to descend, slow down, or reduce differential pressure?
No.
glhcarl very aptly described the windshield construction on the Lockheed 1011, it is very tough, nicely curved (and optically correct)...and rather expensive.
Ordered up a new unit via Stockholm Radio HF phone patch, and it was waiting for us upon arrival.
It took exactly 2.5 hours to change.

I was told long ago that the L1011 windshield could withstand the impact of a .38 caliber bullet, fired at a distance of four feet, without penatration.
Perhaps glhcarl could confirm, as he is very knowledgeable about the L1011.

PS:
No 'full emergency' (whatever that is) required, just switched off the window heat and pressed on.
End of drama....
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Old 12th Feb 2009, 11:26
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Originally Posted by springer1
It seems to me the A320/319 has an inordinate amount of windshield failures. I have had two in one year and when checking with maintenance, there was a history of 11 in a three month period.

Never experienced it in the B727 or DC10.
A somewhat all embracing statement.

My airline had aircraft of both Boeing and Airbus types. Windscreen changes came up with monotonous regularity on all types.
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Old 13th Feb 2009, 03:03
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I was told long ago that the L1011 windshield could withstand the impact of a .38 caliber bullet, fired at a distance of four feet, without penatration.
Perhaps glhcarl could confirm, as he is very knowledgeable about the L1011
I never heard of the L-1011 windshield stopping a .38 bullet. However, the windshield is over at 2.00" thick and the streached acraylic is really tough.

The windshields were tested by firing a four pound bird (chicken) from a compressed air canon at 350 knots. Thirteen tests were run, the only damage was cracking of the outer glass of the main windshield. The side windows, which do not have the outer layer of glass, suffered no damage.
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Old 13th Feb 2009, 10:50
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Here's a section from a Lear windscreen. (The things you find lying around ... )


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