Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Pasadena, CA
Pictures from Jet Transfer through New Jersey Streets
First post by SLF who stumbled across a few pictures that were posted today and is curious if the pros here can make anything out of the dings and what appears to be circle marks by spray paint.
ABC News: Jet Hauled Through Jersey Streets
ABC News: Jet Hauled Through Jersey Streets
Joined: Mar 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,558
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From: BC
lomapaseo;
I've deleted the post as you are right - my thanks for correcting my recollection.
protectthehornet;
The statements of the writer regarding the Airbus accident at Habsheim are demonstrably incorrect. The opinions regarding the A320 indicate an almost total lack of understanding of the airplane and it's design. While one can agree that a steel cable to a fuel control unit works, the industry has come a long, long way since the DC8, 707 and early 747 were designed. Regarding fbw, one can make the same comment on hydraulic systems, where a pilot never has a solid connection with the controls, the connection obviously being done through fluid rather than electrons. The last truly manual jet transport was the DC8, designed in 1955 - the elevators were pure cable and very heavy in some regimes and the ailerons as well, were run by boost tabs. Even the 707 was hydraulically, not cable controlled. I thought the comment, if truly made, was a very long way behind the times, and that is what I meant. Yes, at that we'll leave the point alone as engine control is indeed an interesting subject. All the same, it's just hard to get by some of the wilder understandings being posted.
And here I thought Arizona was gonna take it...
I've deleted the post as you are right - my thanks for correcting my recollection.
protectthehornet;
The statements of the writer regarding the Airbus accident at Habsheim are demonstrably incorrect. The opinions regarding the A320 indicate an almost total lack of understanding of the airplane and it's design. While one can agree that a steel cable to a fuel control unit works, the industry has come a long, long way since the DC8, 707 and early 747 were designed. Regarding fbw, one can make the same comment on hydraulic systems, where a pilot never has a solid connection with the controls, the connection obviously being done through fluid rather than electrons. The last truly manual jet transport was the DC8, designed in 1955 - the elevators were pure cable and very heavy in some regimes and the ailerons as well, were run by boost tabs. Even the 707 was hydraulically, not cable controlled. I thought the comment, if truly made, was a very long way behind the times, and that is what I meant. Yes, at that we'll leave the point alone as engine control is indeed an interesting subject. All the same, it's just hard to get by some of the wilder understandings being posted.
And here I thought Arizona was gonna take it...
Joined: Jul 1999
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From: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Avweb. Today. 
US Airways Ditching Fallout Hits American With Rafts
American Airlines has decided that its possible failure to equip aircraft with enough emergency life rafts means that it will limit the number of passengers it carries on those aircraft until it knows exactly how many rafts it might need. That means American's Boeing 767-300 aircraft, which are configured to hold 236 people (including crew) and fly mostly trans-Atlantic routes, will hold no more than 228 people until the situation is resolved, probably by February. The FAA requires carriers to provide enough rafts to accommodate everyone on the aircraft even if one raft fails, and following a recent review of its own 737 aircraft American decided to investigate other aircraft in the its fleet. The airline added seats to certain 767s when it increased business-class capacity beginning in 2005. American told its employees in a note Tuesday that the safety of passengers had never been in danger, thanks to other available flotation devices available on the aircraft. Of course, survivability for ditching survivors may be improved for those who find themselves rafts when compared to those immersed in cold waters, clutching a seat cushion.
Boeing 767-300s make up almost 10 percent of American's 625 aircraft and crew will need training for the new rafts when they arrive -- they're expected at the end of the month. American's raft review comes just weeks after the Jan. 15 crash of US Airways Flight 1549 that successfully ditched in the Hudson River with no fatalities.
US Airways Ditching Fallout Hits American With Rafts
American Airlines has decided that its possible failure to equip aircraft with enough emergency life rafts means that it will limit the number of passengers it carries on those aircraft until it knows exactly how many rafts it might need. That means American's Boeing 767-300 aircraft, which are configured to hold 236 people (including crew) and fly mostly trans-Atlantic routes, will hold no more than 228 people until the situation is resolved, probably by February. The FAA requires carriers to provide enough rafts to accommodate everyone on the aircraft even if one raft fails, and following a recent review of its own 737 aircraft American decided to investigate other aircraft in the its fleet. The airline added seats to certain 767s when it increased business-class capacity beginning in 2005. American told its employees in a note Tuesday that the safety of passengers had never been in danger, thanks to other available flotation devices available on the aircraft. Of course, survivability for ditching survivors may be improved for those who find themselves rafts when compared to those immersed in cold waters, clutching a seat cushion.
Boeing 767-300s make up almost 10 percent of American's 625 aircraft and crew will need training for the new rafts when they arrive -- they're expected at the end of the month. American's raft review comes just weeks after the Jan. 15 crash of US Airways Flight 1549 that successfully ditched in the Hudson River with no fatalities.
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: SoCalif
Ditch Switch Redundant
The pic in the newspaper link shows awful damage to the aft belly. Looks like the water entered farther forward, and blasted its way out just forward of the empennage connection. It's a wonder the thing floated as long as it did.
Does the A320 have blowout plugs between cabin and cargo like required after the 1973(?) THY DC-10 accident, so a lower area depressurization doesn't collapse the floor? In other words, might the plane have floated longer if the aft cabin door hadn't been partially opened by a passenger? Or would plugs have given way and flooded the cabin anyhow?
Although designed to withstand only cabin pressure, the plane itself should have the potential to be a flotation device.
GB
Does the A320 have blowout plugs between cabin and cargo like required after the 1973(?) THY DC-10 accident, so a lower area depressurization doesn't collapse the floor? In other words, might the plane have floated longer if the aft cabin door hadn't been partially opened by a passenger? Or would plugs have given way and flooded the cabin anyhow?
Although designed to withstand only cabin pressure, the plane itself should have the potential to be a flotation device.
GB
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 1
From: Florida
Pictures from Jet Transfer through New Jersey Streets
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First post by SLF who stumbled across a few pictures that were posted today and is curious if the pros here can make anything out of the dings and what appears to be circle marks by spray paint.
ABC News: Jet Hauled Through Jersey Streets
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First post by SLF who stumbled across a few pictures that were posted today and is curious if the pros here can make anything out of the dings and what appears to be circle marks by spray paint.
ABC News: Jet Hauled Through Jersey Streets
It is a relatively easy job for the investigators up close to tell the difference and document. it is speculative for the rest of us to attempt this from news file pictures posted at low resolutions.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Add a fourth type of damage...
'Disassembly for hauling through the streets of Noo Joisey'. The severe tail damage was probably just that, plus a lot of the dings on the fuselage. Or, being Noo JOisey, the Crips and Bloods maybe stole the tail bling.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 260
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From: Connecticut, USA
Re: the American Airlines # of SLF vs # of rafts -
As I stated earlier in this thread, if they are counting the capacity of the rear slides (which cannot be used without opening the rear doors and flooding the aircraft), then they've got an even larger discrepancy.
As I stated earlier in this thread, if they are counting the capacity of the rear slides (which cannot be used without opening the rear doors and flooding the aircraft), then they've got an even larger discrepancy.
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: new york ny
New York Magazine article
The Mail Man just delivered this week's New York Magazine.
“My Aircraft”
Why Sully may be the last of his kind.
Why US Airways Pilot Chesley Sullenberger III May Be the Last of His Kind -- New York Magazine
“My Aircraft”
Why Sully may be the last of his kind.
Why US Airways Pilot Chesley Sullenberger III May Be the Last of His Kind -- New York Magazine
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,053
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From: alameda
Flight CREW on David Letterman
The innauguration, super bowl and now...ta ta da: David Letterman, Feb 10.
Also 60 minutes on Feb 8, CBS morning show on FEB 9.
It seems that USAIR likes CBS. Now, let's all think of a top ten list for the show!
Also 60 minutes on Feb 8, CBS morning show on FEB 9.
It seems that USAIR likes CBS. Now, let's all think of a top ten list for the show!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 1
From: Florida
Our Heros
Regardless what we think as professionals in this business about the effort, superhuman or not, that a specfic crew made, it is equally if not more important to reinforce with the flying public that we have the stuff to make flying safe.
Day after day I run into John Q either as my barber, on the golf course or even in doctor's offices who are mightly impressed about the outcome and truly want to believe that in time of need they also wil have a crew with the same skill as displayed in this near disaster.
All the hoop-la that we are commenting on is the marketing of this message, so let it continue. The public needs to remember some good rather than all bad about flying.
Day after day I run into John Q either as my barber, on the golf course or even in doctor's offices who are mightly impressed about the outcome and truly want to believe that in time of need they also wil have a crew with the same skill as displayed in this near disaster.
All the hoop-la that we are commenting on is the marketing of this message, so let it continue. The public needs to remember some good rather than all bad about flying.
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: southwest
lomapaseo
How right you are. When this great human flying adventure is over, for whatever reason, I hope someone will be left to write its history.
One great disappointment will be: why didn't the flying community bother to explain to the public how much effort goes into securing safety, from the design of the rivets through production through training through operations.
There are public heroes, sure, but far more unsung designers and regulators who forged our safety record. Nevertheless, well done Sully and Airbus, for keeping the wings level this time.
One great disappointment will be: why didn't the flying community bother to explain to the public how much effort goes into securing safety, from the design of the rivets through production through training through operations.
There are public heroes, sure, but far more unsung designers and regulators who forged our safety record. Nevertheless, well done Sully and Airbus, for keeping the wings level this time.
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Hadlow
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,569
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From: Florida
One great disappointment will be: why didn't the flying community bother to explain to the public how much effort goes into securing safety, from the design of the rivets through production through training through operations.
we've got to wait for a near disaster before even attempting to get that message across and even then the gloom and doom attention getters among us will win everytime.
It sems that the only PR guys among us are obvious stooges in the direct employ of big business.
I'm sure that a few contractual PR guys out there know the score.
Joined: May 2003
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From: Cote d'Azur
A.P. : Feb 2nd, 2009 | FRESNO, Calif. -- Hero pilot Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger is every librarian's hero, too.
The US Airways pilot splash landed his jetliner in the Hudson River on Jan. 15, and everyone on board escaped safely. But left in the cargo hold was a book Sullenberger had checked out from California State University, Fresno, through his local library near Danville.
Library officials say Sullenberger asked for an extension and waiver of overdue fees. The pilot and his spokeswoman didn't return messages seeking comment Monday.
The librarians say they were struck by Sullenberger's sense of responsibility and did him one better: they're waiving all fees and dedicating the replacement book to him.
The book's subject? Professional ethics.
The US Airways pilot splash landed his jetliner in the Hudson River on Jan. 15, and everyone on board escaped safely. But left in the cargo hold was a book Sullenberger had checked out from California State University, Fresno, through his local library near Danville.
Library officials say Sullenberger asked for an extension and waiver of overdue fees. The pilot and his spokeswoman didn't return messages seeking comment Monday.
The librarians say they were struck by Sullenberger's sense of responsibility and did him one better: they're waiving all fees and dedicating the replacement book to him.
The book's subject? Professional ethics.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 1
From: Florida
The librarians say they were struck by Sullenberger's sense of responsibility and did him one better: they're waiving all fees and dedicating the replacement book to him.
The Reverend
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,020
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From: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Add a fourth type of damage...
'Disassembly for hauling through the streets of Noo Joisey'. The severe tail damage was probably just that, plus a lot of the dings on the fuselage. Or, being Noo JOisey, the Crips and Bloods maybe stole the tail bling.
'Disassembly for hauling through the streets of Noo Joisey'. The severe tail damage was probably just that, plus a lot of the dings on the fuselage. Or, being Noo JOisey, the Crips and Bloods maybe stole the tail bling.
Speaking of hitting the water:
Did I mention that the underside was shredded? It appears that the force deformed the airframe enough that the R1 door (the galley service door directly across from the passenger boarding door) was forced open! I cannot imagine what sort of force that took. You couldn't chop your way through that structure with an axe and a six-day week to do it. The APU, and its entire fire containment box was ripped loose from the mounts and was hanging underneath the airplane by a single cable. There is also a wrinkle, an airframe deformation across the top of the fuselage just a ways aft of the wings. That airplane might have looked intact but it is junk; it is beercans.
Did I mention that the underside was shredded? It appears that the force deformed the airframe enough that the R1 door (the galley service door directly across from the passenger boarding door) was forced open! I cannot imagine what sort of force that took. You couldn't chop your way through that structure with an axe and a six-day week to do it. The APU, and its entire fire containment box was ripped loose from the mounts and was hanging underneath the airplane by a single cable. There is also a wrinkle, an airframe deformation across the top of the fuselage just a ways aft of the wings. That airplane might have looked intact but it is junk; it is beercans.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,269
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From: Denver
"The U.S. Airways pilot who saved 155 lives! Plus, his crew in their first live primetime interview. The miracle on the Hudson pilot and crew take your calls only on Larry King Live! "
On CNN... Monday 2/9 (or 9/2 for the eurofans)
I expect Sully et al will do better than the average SkyNews reporter at explaining aviation...
On CNN... Monday 2/9 (or 9/2 for the eurofans)
I expect Sully et al will do better than the average SkyNews reporter at explaining aviation...
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,569
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From: Florida
I expect Sully et al will do better than the average SkyNews reporter at explaining aviation...
There's a time to gamble and a time to collect your winnings.