Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: southwest
thcrozier
"Also, are the engine pylons designed to shear off under the stress of a water landing?"
I think the answer is somewhere on PPrune. I know for a fact that in the early days Airbus adopted a different means from Boeing to meet the requirement that (from memory) in an accident large masses should not fly around and cause even more damage to the plane and pax cabin. Boeing always used the famous "fuse pins" designed to let the engines separate early under relatively low loads. Airbus chose to ensure, as far as possible, that the engines remain attached.
I'm not 100% sure that this philosophy was carried over to the A320 Family, but I think it was.
I think the answer is somewhere on PPrune. I know for a fact that in the early days Airbus adopted a different means from Boeing to meet the requirement that (from memory) in an accident large masses should not fly around and cause even more damage to the plane and pax cabin. Boeing always used the famous "fuse pins" designed to let the engines separate early under relatively low loads. Airbus chose to ensure, as far as possible, that the engines remain attached.
I'm not 100% sure that this philosophy was carried over to the A320 Family, but I think it was.
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Sydney
One of 8 (now 9?) successfull ditchings
Here is a photo of another successful ditching of heavy airliner. Tupolev 124 jet, USSR, 1963, all 52 on board survived.
Tupolev 124 ditching in Neva River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Article says "It remains one of 8 documented intentional water ditchings of commercial passenger planes. "
Tupolev 124 ditching in Neva River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Article says "It remains one of 8 documented intentional water ditchings of commercial passenger planes. "
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 112
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From: Derby UK
superb job well done by all the crew 
runway condition ?
wet wet wet.
As SLF my view of ditching has always been, that the yellow rubbery things are just to help the investigators find all the bodies.
Better change my view now i spose.
and we better start looking to regulate the geese, or tax them out of the skies of course.
does anyone know how many geese were injured/killed and whether they were fitted with TCAS, or what make of geese they were.
just trying to give the accident investigators a leg up here in true PPRUNE fashion
again - well done crew
runway condition ?
wet wet wet.
As SLF my view of ditching has always been, that the yellow rubbery things are just to help the investigators find all the bodies.
Better change my view now i spose.
and we better start looking to regulate the geese, or tax them out of the skies of course.
does anyone know how many geese were injured/killed and whether they were fitted with TCAS, or what make of geese they were.
just trying to give the accident investigators a leg up here in true PPRUNE fashion
again - well done crew
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 34
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From: Europe
Double bird strike
There was a multiple bird strike just a few weeks ago on final approach. Both engines stalled. Ryanair plane landed hard but safely at Rome Ciampino.
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: South Africa
Jesus Walking on Water - Violent Femmes
Quote "This crew really have done the industry proud.
From a flight attendants view , I am so amazed at how the 3 cabin crew ( 2 seated at front...1 at rear ?? ) managed to control 150 people once the aircraft landed in water. Not an easy task."
Well done to the FA's for getting the right ratio of PAX on the left and right wings ! Must have been interesting at the herding point
Out of interest, we always know the FO never gets a mention, but who WAS the Pilot Flying ?
We all assume it was the captain.......
How about a mention of ALL the crew...
Wonder if the crew got the flight folio and their headsets off.....
Well done...
From a flight attendants view , I am so amazed at how the 3 cabin crew ( 2 seated at front...1 at rear ?? ) managed to control 150 people once the aircraft landed in water. Not an easy task."
Well done to the FA's for getting the right ratio of PAX on the left and right wings ! Must have been interesting at the herding point
Out of interest, we always know the FO never gets a mention, but who WAS the Pilot Flying ?
We all assume it was the captain.......
How about a mention of ALL the crew...
Wonder if the crew got the flight folio and their headsets off.....
Well done...
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: West Country
Has nothing to do with doors.
Power assist is purely mechanical - no electrics involved. All it is is a gas bottle attached to a ram that pushes the door open when opened in the armed mode.
Joined: Jul 1999
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From: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Also, as to the question about why so few passengers appear to be wearing life vests. It is possible that this plane wasn't equipped with them -- relying on seat cushions, instead.
<CR2 shakes head in wonder>
<CR2 shakes head in wonder>
FAA Regs same as Canada.
Air Canada’s regional carrier Jazz is removing life vests from all its planes to save weight and fuel. Jazz spokeswoman Manon Stuart said Friday that government regulations set by Transport Canada allow airlines to use floatation devices instead of life vests provided the planes remain within 50 nautical miles of shore.
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: SW France
Question to those here who drive the Big Iron: in a situation like this, assuming it's the FO's sector, would the Captain take over ? We know this was not the case with BA38 / 777 at LHR, but what's the standard procedure (if any)?
Well, I asked the same question to my pal who is a skipper on a widebody and he told me that he would be inclined to let his first officer fly the aircraft whilst he initially sat on his hands, quickly assesed the situation and then went through with emergency action procedures.
He said, (generally) flying the thing was the easier of the jobs, and that managing the emergency and making the correct command descions for the whole operation is where the cool head was really needed.
I guess when you get close to the ground, is where the capt. may want to take control? each situation will be different I guess and depends who is flying in the righthand seat, beacuse it could be a 300hr recent abinito or a 9000hour senior FO - your willingness to let them land the thing may well depend on this. In the BA incident, the FO was a high hour pilot.
Well, I asked the same question to my pal who is a skipper on a widebody and he told me that he would be inclined to let his first officer fly the aircraft whilst he initially sat on his hands, quickly assesed the situation and then went through with emergency action procedures.
He said, (generally) flying the thing was the easier of the jobs, and that managing the emergency and making the correct command descions for the whole operation is where the cool head was really needed.
I guess when you get close to the ground, is where the capt. may want to take control? each situation will be different I guess and depends who is flying in the righthand seat, beacuse it could be a 300hr recent abinito or a 9000hour senior FO - your willingness to let them land the thing may well depend on this. In the BA incident, the FO was a high hour pilot.
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Oz
Sorry, my post may have come across as meaning power assist is electrical, thanks for clarifying it, I meant that perhaps the averge person confuses the 'power' to mean 'electrical'
Quite a few posters mentioned ALL the crew, and pax as well... well done them for not losing their heads- they look quite calm from the wing shot- perhaps seeing the ferries on the way helped
Quite a few posters mentioned ALL the crew, and pax as well... well done them for not losing their heads- they look quite calm from the wing shot- perhaps seeing the ferries on the way helped
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Paros, Greece
Airbus A320s, like the one involved in today's dramatic but fatality-free crash, and their Boeing 737 counterparts, will come to rest in survivable ditchings in a tail down attitude with the rear door sills under water.
Firstly, may I say that as pax/ppl I usually respect the overwhelming "pro's only" comments on threads such as this and quite rightly too, but I thought this might be an interesting response to the above.
I have a large collection of safety cards (gained leagally by asking crew for spares, so don't preach) and having just checked, the A320 ones (UA, B6, BA, BD etc.) ALL clearly show via diagrams that the rear exits should possibly be used in a ditching. Contrary to the article above, all the instances of 737 I checked seem to specifically prohibit the use of the rear exists in this scenario and a few (BA 734, BD 733/5 for example) state that ONLY the overwing exits (not the front doors) should be used. Interestingly, several have no specific guidance on the use of exits after ditchings!
It seems clear from the pictures that this aircraft would very quickly have sunk with open rear exits. Maybe this will be one of the (I'm sure many) safety improvements that comes from this amazing incident. I'll be watching with interest as both pilot and pax. Just a thought.
Firstly, may I say that as pax/ppl I usually respect the overwhelming "pro's only" comments on threads such as this and quite rightly too, but I thought this might be an interesting response to the above.
I have a large collection of safety cards (gained leagally by asking crew for spares, so don't preach) and having just checked, the A320 ones (UA, B6, BA, BD etc.) ALL clearly show via diagrams that the rear exits should possibly be used in a ditching. Contrary to the article above, all the instances of 737 I checked seem to specifically prohibit the use of the rear exists in this scenario and a few (BA 734, BD 733/5 for example) state that ONLY the overwing exits (not the front doors) should be used. Interestingly, several have no specific guidance on the use of exits after ditchings!
It seems clear from the pictures that this aircraft would very quickly have sunk with open rear exits. Maybe this will be one of the (I'm sure many) safety improvements that comes from this amazing incident. I'll be watching with interest as both pilot and pax. Just a thought.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 41
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From: Kildare, Ireland
Take a look at this guys, he narrowly avoided a head on with helicopter N461SA coming in the opposite direction up the river at 1000ft! Looks like the heli took avoidance measures.
Go to 15th Jan, 15:25. Click on a plane for details. The A320 appears at 15:59:57
LaGuardia Airport - AirportMonitor - by Megadata - powered by PASSUR
Here's the track log from flightaware.com
FlightAware > Live Flight Tracker > Track Log > AWE1549 > 15-Jan-2009 > KLGA-KLGA
Go to 15th Jan, 15:25. Click on a plane for details. The A320 appears at 15:59:57
LaGuardia Airport - AirportMonitor - by Megadata - powered by PASSUR
Here's the track log from flightaware.com
FlightAware > Live Flight Tracker > Track Log > AWE1549 > 15-Jan-2009 > KLGA-KLGA
Eight Gun Fighter
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: Western Approaches
The aircraft is still floating and tied up to a dock. I imagine a couple of heavy-duty cranes in the morning to do a lift and then some serious considerations about how to get it the hell out of there. The wings are going to have to come off.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 221
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From: Hampshire, UK
I wonder if the nr. 2 engine is still on the pylon, hence the wing down appearance the fuselage has had since the early photos. The training in this profession - and others - just amazes me. What a super job by all concerned.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 151
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From: UK
Video of La Guardia rw31 departure showing ditch area
For those wondering if they could pull it off this video gives an idea of how it might have been.
It's a departure from RW31 looking out of the left cabin windows. Manhatton and central park come clearly into view at 2mins 30secs, quickly followed by the river at 2mins 50secs. By this stage presumably the crew were well on their way down (and thus the view much more challenging).
It brings a lump to the throat realising the only option left to do is to whack it round to the left and go for a southerly ditch. For a light aircraft, I guess Central Park itself might be an option (has any aircraft ever landed there?)
YouTube - TAKE OFF FROM LA GUARDIA AIRPORT NEW YORK
It's a departure from RW31 looking out of the left cabin windows. Manhatton and central park come clearly into view at 2mins 30secs, quickly followed by the river at 2mins 50secs. By this stage presumably the crew were well on their way down (and thus the view much more challenging).
It brings a lump to the throat realising the only option left to do is to whack it round to the left and go for a southerly ditch. For a light aircraft, I guess Central Park itself might be an option (has any aircraft ever landed there?)
YouTube - TAKE OFF FROM LA GUARDIA AIRPORT NEW YORK