USAirways failing .......
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DonkeyDuke- let's see what loads are like in oh, six weeks time, shall we? 
If you haven't cottoned onto the fact that this is merely a seasonal blip (the Christmas season being one of the heaviest for air travellers) then it's obvious that you have only just joined the industry.
Oh, and there's a chap out there by the name of Warren E Buffett who says that this recession will last eight years - and that was before the events of the 11th September. But what would he know? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Finally - as you should know - if you put avgas into a jet, nasty things happen.
Indiana Jones - very true; and of course that doesn't just apply to US Airways but to every US major. If they don't give up their scope agreements and their insane pay increases (which applies to management as well - though to be fair the figure that U3K gave for Wolf's package is largely made up of bonuses and stock options (which cannot be worth much if anything)), they will simply be the formerly highest paid people in the welfare office.
At present, it seems that a number of the unions are adopting a BeCA like "if we can't have our way we'll destroy the company" approach.
If you haven't cottoned onto the fact that this is merely a seasonal blip (the Christmas season being one of the heaviest for air travellers) then it's obvious that you have only just joined the industry. Oh, and there's a chap out there by the name of Warren E Buffett who says that this recession will last eight years - and that was before the events of the 11th September. But what would he know? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Finally - as you should know - if you put avgas into a jet, nasty things happen.
Indiana Jones - very true; and of course that doesn't just apply to US Airways but to every US major. If they don't give up their scope agreements and their insane pay increases (which applies to management as well - though to be fair the figure that U3K gave for Wolf's package is largely made up of bonuses and stock options (which cannot be worth much if anything)), they will simply be the formerly highest paid people in the welfare office.
At present, it seems that a number of the unions are adopting a BeCA like "if we can't have our way we'll destroy the company" approach.
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[quote]Any airline that doesn't cut its overheads to a point where costs are lower than income is going to go under as surely as the Titanic. <hr></blockquote>
NSF What's the problem?
What would you like to hear?
Something along the lines of
[quote]Load Factor, Yield, Revenue are unimportant to the Aviation busines. Everythings fine people! <hr></blockquote>
You probably think a good airline is one that goes bust with an extremely large payroll.
Good luck US Airways <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> I look forward to flying you again. With or without the full compliment of FA's
NSF What's the problem?
What would you like to hear?
Something along the lines of
[quote]Load Factor, Yield, Revenue are unimportant to the Aviation busines. Everythings fine people! <hr></blockquote>
You probably think a good airline is one that goes bust with an extremely large payroll.
Good luck US Airways <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> I look forward to flying you again. With or without the full compliment of FA's
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I like all of these predictions of doom and gloom. Unfortunately, it is not a new tune.
“In early March Continental Airlines struck a possibly lethal blow at USAir, but the bell that tolls for USAir tolls not for it alone but perhaps for United, American, Delta and Northwest as well. The full service airline as we know it almost since the dawn of the aviation age may be doomed.”
“It is a sure bet that well before the end of the century American, United, Delta, Northwest, and USAir will radically change the way they operate. That, or join Pan Am, Eastern and Braniff in the full service carrier boneyard.”
--- Excerpts from Forbes Magazine, May 9, 1994, “A Sixties industry in a Nineties economy”
Don’t hold your breath waiting for the doors to shut. It took Eastern and Pan Am thirteen years to die after deregulation. Look how long TWA limped on with a lamprey attached.
So what kills an airline, high labor costs or management egos? If you think it’s labor costs, I have another excerpt for you:
“Delta Airlines has the rest of the industry worried. A union official said, “Delta is very paternalistic. If they are making money, they want their employees to share in the wealth, regardless of what other carriers think. The airlines that followed Delta in the last round of negotiations really had a hard act to follow.
In the spring of 1974, Delta negotiated a 30% increase in pay, not including increases in pensions or other benefits, over a two-year contract. Delta ‘s pilots have pensions and disability income plans comparable with the rest of the industry.”
---- Aviation Week & Space Technology, July 12, 1976
“In early March Continental Airlines struck a possibly lethal blow at USAir, but the bell that tolls for USAir tolls not for it alone but perhaps for United, American, Delta and Northwest as well. The full service airline as we know it almost since the dawn of the aviation age may be doomed.”
“It is a sure bet that well before the end of the century American, United, Delta, Northwest, and USAir will radically change the way they operate. That, or join Pan Am, Eastern and Braniff in the full service carrier boneyard.”
--- Excerpts from Forbes Magazine, May 9, 1994, “A Sixties industry in a Nineties economy”
Don’t hold your breath waiting for the doors to shut. It took Eastern and Pan Am thirteen years to die after deregulation. Look how long TWA limped on with a lamprey attached.
So what kills an airline, high labor costs or management egos? If you think it’s labor costs, I have another excerpt for you:
“Delta Airlines has the rest of the industry worried. A union official said, “Delta is very paternalistic. If they are making money, they want their employees to share in the wealth, regardless of what other carriers think. The airlines that followed Delta in the last round of negotiations really had a hard act to follow.
In the spring of 1974, Delta negotiated a 30% increase in pay, not including increases in pensions or other benefits, over a two-year contract. Delta ‘s pilots have pensions and disability income plans comparable with the rest of the industry.”
---- Aviation Week & Space Technology, July 12, 1976
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Redtail - that's all very well, but try this little exercise:
1) Take the average yields of 1976 and extrapolate them forward in 2001 dollars.
2) Compare with 2001 average yields.
3) Do the same for pay.
See the problem? Costs have outstripped income.
Micawber, in Charles Dickens' David Copperfield, understood the supreme importance of living within his means. As the character put it so succinctly: "annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds, nineteen shillings and sixpence: result, happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds and sixpence: result, misery."
Sums the airline industry up, really! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
1) Take the average yields of 1976 and extrapolate them forward in 2001 dollars.
2) Compare with 2001 average yields.
3) Do the same for pay.
See the problem? Costs have outstripped income.
Micawber, in Charles Dickens' David Copperfield, understood the supreme importance of living within his means. As the character put it so succinctly: "annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds, nineteen shillings and sixpence: result, happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds and sixpence: result, misery."
Sums the airline industry up, really! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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On Friday the government granted $380 million in loan guarantees to America West in return for a 33% equity stake. Let's see what they and US Air do with the breathing room they get.
US Airways' reputation seems to be haunted way back to their origins from Allegheny. That airline had a bad reputation also, and it just carried over.
I have heard about Allegheny's "bad reputation" but never knew where it came from. I lived in a small town in upper NY state for five years in the '70s and Allegheny was the only jet service there so I used them a lot. They were nicknamed Agony Airlines in those days but I never had cause to complain. From time to time in winter they stuck me overnight in places like Cleveland and Buffalo but I couldn't blame them for the weather and they always took care of the hotels and provided me with overnight kits. I wasn't crazy about 12 minute hops such as Elmira-Ithaca but then neither place would have been served without Allegheny. I seem to recall that seating on the BAC1-11s that they flew was roomier than the DC-9 service of other regionals such as Republic and Ozark, but I'm not sure that I can trust my memory on that. Anyway, to my mind the "bad reputation" of Allegheny was a bad rap.
US Airways' reputation seems to be haunted way back to their origins from Allegheny. That airline had a bad reputation also, and it just carried over.
I have heard about Allegheny's "bad reputation" but never knew where it came from. I lived in a small town in upper NY state for five years in the '70s and Allegheny was the only jet service there so I used them a lot. They were nicknamed Agony Airlines in those days but I never had cause to complain. From time to time in winter they stuck me overnight in places like Cleveland and Buffalo but I couldn't blame them for the weather and they always took care of the hotels and provided me with overnight kits. I wasn't crazy about 12 minute hops such as Elmira-Ithaca but then neither place would have been served without Allegheny. I seem to recall that seating on the BAC1-11s that they flew was roomier than the DC-9 service of other regionals such as Republic and Ozark, but I'm not sure that I can trust my memory on that. Anyway, to my mind the "bad reputation" of Allegheny was a bad rap.
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REDTAIL:
USAirways has high labor costs, enormous management egos AND even more enormous pilot egos: this combination just might be a lethal mix post 9/11.
For a reality check maybe the still-employed USAirways pilots should check with some of the furloughed USAirways pilots---I imagine that nobody is enjoying their situation and from that perspective maybe allowing the management to have some flexibility on RJ's might just jump-start USAirways.
Or the USAirways pilots can just ignore reality and join their fellow pilots in the unemployment lines. :-(
It's later than you think!
USAirways has high labor costs, enormous management egos AND even more enormous pilot egos: this combination just might be a lethal mix post 9/11.
For a reality check maybe the still-employed USAirways pilots should check with some of the furloughed USAirways pilots---I imagine that nobody is enjoying their situation and from that perspective maybe allowing the management to have some flexibility on RJ's might just jump-start USAirways.
Or the USAirways pilots can just ignore reality and join their fellow pilots in the unemployment lines. :-(
It's later than you think!
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While everyone at USAirways will agree that the company needs RJs there must be understanding that Wolf is trying to bring RJs to USAirways without any job guarantees. He is trying to outsource mainline flying to non wholly owned carriers. While the passengers may prefer RJs for 1 hour legs now, they may get a little miffed when they end up flying from PIT or CLT to STL or DFW as what mr. Steve "wolf in wolfs clothing" Wolf would have.
Parking 110 mainline planes and putting 1300 pilots on the street under the guise of Force Majeure is wrong. Having paying passengers go to airports expecting to travel from A to B only to find their flights cancelled due to understaffing is wrong. Cancelling 100 flights a day on average is wrong and is in my definition bad management.
USAirways will go south not because of its employees but because of the management team that does not encourage its employees to give the concessions to burgeoning contracts that are costing USAirways millions in unproductivity.
Management needss to lead by example. <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
Parking 110 mainline planes and putting 1300 pilots on the street under the guise of Force Majeure is wrong. Having paying passengers go to airports expecting to travel from A to B only to find their flights cancelled due to understaffing is wrong. Cancelling 100 flights a day on average is wrong and is in my definition bad management.
USAirways will go south not because of its employees but because of the management team that does not encourage its employees to give the concessions to burgeoning contracts that are costing USAirways millions in unproductivity.
Management needss to lead by example. <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
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As SLF I'll throw this in- I've flown just about every major carrier in the US at some point. Not wanting to kick anybody when they are down, I'll just say- I've never found USAir/USAirways service to be all that impressive. I don't care what one's "cost structure" is- your livlihood depends on beating, i.e. "outservicing", the other airline. Certainly the other factors play in- but bottom line- USAirways is never my first or second choice- all things being equal. Please bear in mind, in the past I qualified for "Preferred" status in their FF program- so my opinion is not based on one data point- nor do I infer there are not any good or excellent people working there- there are, I've met them- but again, in general- my opinion stands as above.
All that said and not wanting to sound disingenuous- Good Luck to USAirways- it won't be good for anyone if they go away...
All that said and not wanting to sound disingenuous- Good Luck to USAirways- it won't be good for anyone if they go away...
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Wow, I just realized my previous post includes a whopping long run-on sentence... as well as a forgotten point.
Redtail- IMHO, I would take issue with comparing ANY data from 25 years ago in a regulated environment to today's.
Redtail- IMHO, I would take issue with comparing ANY data from 25 years ago in a regulated environment to today's.
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I should think they are.
I got quoted $1600 for a flight from LGW to AUS i Texas.Got a flight on AA for $405.00.And guess who I booked with.A clue, not USAirways.So more money for beer.
I got quoted $1600 for a flight from LGW to AUS i Texas.Got a flight on AA for $405.00.And guess who I booked with.A clue, not USAirways.So more money for beer.
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My points were that labor contracts have been used as a straw man in this industry and predictions that the end is near because of high labor costs have always been made. These aren't new issues, just a rehash. Why is labor always the scapegoat for management's mistakes?
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[quote] Yeah...such as the highest fixed costs in the US airline industry. If US Air does not cut costs soon, it will fold....then the hostie's can remain home and not worry about being "sick". <hr></blockquote>
...and those fixed costs include payments of some $30 million each to its Chairman and CEO. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Doesn't matter. Continental will own them soon enough.
...and those fixed costs include payments of some $30 million each to its Chairman and CEO. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Doesn't matter. Continental will own them soon enough.
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Redtail- Don't misunterstand me- I take no issue with your argument, rather the age and overall context of the data.
I certainly hope CO does not buy USAirways- It would be a hard thing to choke down and would potentially ruining a good airline- even if short term. I only know the generalities- does anyone have a handle on the specific benefits to CO in purchasing US?
I certainly hope CO does not buy USAirways- It would be a hard thing to choke down and would potentially ruining a good airline- even if short term. I only know the generalities- does anyone have a handle on the specific benefits to CO in purchasing US?
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Debt outweighs any benefits, whether UAL or CO were to buy USAir. It's unbelievable that majority shareholders of USAir have not removed Wolf and his gangster management team years ago. Master thief Stephen Wolf has pocketed $11.2 Million Dollars last year in salary and "bonuses" excluding stock options.... You have to sell a lot of tickets to cover such bloated compensation. Even more sickening is the fact that Wolf and his top do-nothing dogs all have secured "golden parachutes" worth many more Millions in case of forced early termination.
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What will be very interesting is the outcome of Steven "wolf in wolfs clothing" Wolfs meeting with ALPA re the RJ issue. Wolf has taken a lot from the media hype he and his mismanagement team are giving out about calling ALPA to get the RJ issue sorted for once. Me thinks that Wolf is gonna give a "take it or we furlough more" offer to ALPA. Of course ALPA and particularly USAirways ALPA (aka. AAA ALPA or "I got mine and screw everyone junior to me ALPA") are notorious for doing nothing for its members unless of course those members are in the top 5% seniority.
To show its further mismanagement USAirways have decided to delay the furlough of 450 pilots from December 31st 2001 until....wait for it..... January 4th 2002 because they realise that pilots due to be furloughed on the 31st will not fly trips on the 1st and as a result the company will,yet again, have to cancel more flights.
The biggest problem as USAirways is that everyone working there feels that they deserve their massively financially crippling contracts and will not give an inch of concessions to a thief like Wolf.
If Wolf needs concessions he will have to give concessions himself. Having said that, I believe that even with concessions, the employee morale and customer satisfaction with USAiways is gone beyond repair. Farmers Almanac should have listed USAirways as being KAPUTT in 2002.
Pity, because most of the flight crew employees there are great! <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
To show its further mismanagement USAirways have decided to delay the furlough of 450 pilots from December 31st 2001 until....wait for it..... January 4th 2002 because they realise that pilots due to be furloughed on the 31st will not fly trips on the 1st and as a result the company will,yet again, have to cancel more flights.
The biggest problem as USAirways is that everyone working there feels that they deserve their massively financially crippling contracts and will not give an inch of concessions to a thief like Wolf.
If Wolf needs concessions he will have to give concessions himself. Having said that, I believe that even with concessions, the employee morale and customer satisfaction with USAiways is gone beyond repair. Farmers Almanac should have listed USAirways as being KAPUTT in 2002.
Pity, because most of the flight crew employees there are great! <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
