Continental 737 Off Runway at DEN
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Wall Street Journal -Crew comment. Appears to be an RTO followed by brake problem:
Braking Problem May Have Caused Denver Runway Accident - WSJ.com
Braking Problem May Have Caused Denver Runway Accident - WSJ.com
PJ2 - yeah I'll buy your map/photo interpretation for now. Photos, esp. older ones seems confusing becasue 34L was a recent addition so not all web pix are up-to-date (e.g. they show WC ending just past rway 34R and the firehouse is missing on some maps/photos)
Trying to work up a set of captions for our newspaper's website right now - from nothing but video stills that show very little context. Glad to have Prrune as an image resource/cross-reference (no quotes - I promise!)
Trying to work up a set of captions for our newspaper's website right now - from nothing but video stills that show very little context. Glad to have Prrune as an image resource/cross-reference (no quotes - I promise!)
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"nice evaquation"
Nice evaquation?
I would say that: why the slides are detached?
have the crew secures the slide to the floor as procedures require?
Any injury occures becasue the pax had to jump out in the frozen ground?
I would say that: why the slides are detached?
have the crew secures the slide to the floor as procedures require?
Any injury occures becasue the pax had to jump out in the frozen ground?
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Taking in consideration airport elevation, wind direction, and the distance the a/c traveled i highly doubt they reached Vr.
It looks like a good jolt from that ridge just after WC. I`m surprised no casualties considering a/c had a considerate amount of fuel on board.
It looks like a good jolt from that ridge just after WC. I`m surprised no casualties considering a/c had a considerate amount of fuel on board.
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Slides
Nice evaquation?
I would say that: why the slides are detached?
have the crew secures the slide to the floor as procedures require?
Any injury occures becasue the pax had to jump out in the frozen ground ?
You're viewing photos from the next morning. The slides were obviously detached, probably by the fire department in order to facilitate getting into the aircraft to put out fire or by the safety team to obtain the data recorders. There is a ladder by L1.
From the photos it appears slides L1, R1 and the left window exit would have been used--since fire would have been on right side of a/c.
BTW, slides are armed prior to pushback from the gate on departure and upon arrival at the gate. Standard operating procedure.
I would say that: why the slides are detached?
have the crew secures the slide to the floor as procedures require?
Any injury occures becasue the pax had to jump out in the frozen ground ?
You're viewing photos from the next morning. The slides were obviously detached, probably by the fire department in order to facilitate getting into the aircraft to put out fire or by the safety team to obtain the data recorders. There is a ladder by L1.
From the photos it appears slides L1, R1 and the left window exit would have been used--since fire would have been on right side of a/c.
BTW, slides are armed prior to pushback from the gate on departure and upon arrival at the gate. Standard operating procedure.
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fire station
Message #42 looks as though they didn't miss a building (the fire station??) by very much.
Seems like a stupid idea to me to put a fire station between parallel runways....
Seems like a stupid idea to me to put a fire station between parallel runways....
Firefighter story
... firefighters train daily for situations like this one, but none of them had experienced it... They knew what to do: One group attacks the fire, another assists injured passengers, and another climbs inside the plane to search for survivors.
Cole, 37, clambered up the slide, which was already slick with foam that other firefighters sprayed on the plane, and he braced himself.
"I was expecting the worst," he said.
So was Benton, 55, who entered after Cole. "I took a little pause. I thought, 'This is going to be terrible.' "
It was black within. Cole, breathing through an oxygen tank, started down the aisle on his knees, groping with gloved hands for anything that felt human. Outside, firefighters aimed foam at the plane, and the spray blasted through the skin of the aircraft, dousing Cole in the face.
An obstacle blocked the aisle, so he started climbing over the seats, running his hands over cushions, patting luggage. What he feared most, he said, was that a child was unconscious under a seat.
Benton followed holding a thermal imager, a device that looks like a camcorder and detects body heat. He pointed it down each row of seats. Nothing.
"I was overjoyed," he said later. "Not a soul was on that plane."
Cole, 37, clambered up the slide, which was already slick with foam that other firefighters sprayed on the plane, and he braced himself.
"I was expecting the worst," he said.
So was Benton, 55, who entered after Cole. "I took a little pause. I thought, 'This is going to be terrible.' "
It was black within. Cole, breathing through an oxygen tank, started down the aisle on his knees, groping with gloved hands for anything that felt human. Outside, firefighters aimed foam at the plane, and the spray blasted through the skin of the aircraft, dousing Cole in the face.
An obstacle blocked the aisle, so he started climbing over the seats, running his hands over cushions, patting luggage. What he feared most, he said, was that a child was unconscious under a seat.
Benton followed holding a thermal imager, a device that looks like a camcorder and detects body heat. He pointed it down each row of seats. Nothing.
"I was overjoyed," he said later. "Not a soul was on that plane."
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Message #42 looks as though they didn't miss a building (the fire station??) by very much.
Seems like a stupid idea to me to put a fire station between parallel runways....
Seems like a stupid idea to me to put a fire station between parallel runways....
The fire station appears to be in the middle of the runways, not the ends. And who knows whether those earthen berms were intended to offer some protection from even a low risk mid runway event. Based on a risk/benefit analysis, probably low risk, high benefit. And in this case, even higher benefit with firefighters literally right there.
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Seems like a stupid idea to me to put a fire station between parallel runways....
From the wsj article linked above it was suggested an aborted takeoff with brake problems - whilst this is speculatory and no indication was given as to why abort the takeoff - how severe a brake problem would need to occur for the plane to deviate in such a manner (considering one would expect the flight crew to do their best to counter any effects of a brake problem). Is the article just speculating and claiming to cite the pilots or is this indeed a possibility ?
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According to Reuters
Brakes looked at in Continental runway incident: report
They mean locked
Brakes looked at in Continental runway incident: report | U.S. | Reuters
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Braking problems may be to blame for a Continental Airlines flight running off a runway in Denver this week-end, according to an online report in the Wall Street Journal on Sunday.
On Saturday, a Continental-operated Boeing 737 failed to take off from Denver en route to Houston. The airplane subsequently ran off the runway, dramatically catching on fire, and leaving many of those on board with injuries.
The Journal, citing people familiar with early data gathered by investigators, said preliminary indications point to a braking malfunction..........
.
Brakes looked at in Continental runway incident: report
They mean locked
Brakes looked at in Continental runway incident: report | U.S. | Reuters
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Braking problems may be to blame for a Continental Airlines flight running off a runway in Denver this week-end, according to an online report in the Wall Street Journal on Sunday.
On Saturday, a Continental-operated Boeing 737 failed to take off from Denver en route to Houston. The airplane subsequently ran off the runway, dramatically catching on fire, and leaving many of those on board with injuries.
The Journal, citing people familiar with early data gathered by investigators, said preliminary indications point to a braking malfunction..........
.
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Rumor has it
the problem started when the plane hit something on the runway which caused it to bounce up in the air and come back down...It looks like somebody took a blow torch to the right side of the plane right behind the wing.
These are the 1st pictures I've seen pf the right side pf the plane...
Denver plane skids off runway - Yahoo! News Photos here..
These are the 1st pictures I've seen pf the right side pf the plane...
Denver plane skids off runway - Yahoo! News Photos here..
Pure speculation, but worth thinking about for everyday operations:-
Rejected take off due to engine malfunction, asymmetric reverse, directional control problems in a strong crosswind.
Or
Reject due to ‘bang’ - tyre failure, resulting in braking difficulties and control problems in a strong crosswind.
Runway conditon - blowing snow?
Rejected take off due to engine malfunction, asymmetric reverse, directional control problems in a strong crosswind.
Or
Reject due to ‘bang’ - tyre failure, resulting in braking difficulties and control problems in a strong crosswind.
Runway conditon - blowing snow?
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Assuming the Right engine failed prior to V1;
The Left engine still producing thrust would have caused the plane to yaw to the RIGHT requiring left rudder and possibly left brake to compensate.
As the pilot applied reverse thrust during the abort, the operating left engine would now produce a yaw to the LEFT.
If the pilot did not then apply RIGHT rudder and/or the RIGHT brake, the result would be the aircraft departing the runway to the left.
If the Pilot applied the right brake and it failed, it would have the same result.
The Left engine still producing thrust would have caused the plane to yaw to the RIGHT requiring left rudder and possibly left brake to compensate.
As the pilot applied reverse thrust during the abort, the operating left engine would now produce a yaw to the LEFT.
If the pilot did not then apply RIGHT rudder and/or the RIGHT brake, the result would be the aircraft departing the runway to the left.
If the Pilot applied the right brake and it failed, it would have the same result.
At the risk of thread drift (or irritating people who know far more than I do...)
Cabin crew does wonders at briefing passengers who bother to listen. They CLEARLY helped get everyone out of the plane before part of it was burning.
Many of the facts seem to be lacking...
Please don't rip my head off if I ask if Cabin Crew can go above and beyond the standard emergency chute departure routine by asking a few healthy muscular passengers to catch fellow passengers as they reach the end of the emergency slide?
I assume most of the injuries and "broken bones" happened when people hit the ground trying to get away from the plane.
Looking at a few people with a steely-eyed gaze and telling them to make sure you assist these people exit safely by standing at the end of the slide to slow their fall (but run away if needed) might reduce injuries and give people hero moments to remember for years.
Cabin crew does wonders at briefing passengers who bother to listen. They CLEARLY helped get everyone out of the plane before part of it was burning.
Many of the facts seem to be lacking...
Please don't rip my head off if I ask if Cabin Crew can go above and beyond the standard emergency chute departure routine by asking a few healthy muscular passengers to catch fellow passengers as they reach the end of the emergency slide?
I assume most of the injuries and "broken bones" happened when people hit the ground trying to get away from the plane.
Looking at a few people with a steely-eyed gaze and telling them to make sure you assist these people exit safely by standing at the end of the slide to slow their fall (but run away if needed) might reduce injuries and give people hero moments to remember for years.
Let's slow down for a moment and think about the Fire crews entering a burning aircraft to rescue people!
I for one....tip my hat to those guys!
I for one....tip my hat to those guys!
