Continental 737 Off Runway at DEN
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: russell, ky
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cross Wind
Some say the aircraft will weather vane into the wind. In this case to the left. Others say the left cross wind and gust will cause the aircraft to veer to the right. This should be a no brainer among professional pilots. Yes, the Wall Street Journal report is not official from the NTSB but based on what the pilots told the NTSB during an interview.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but based on what the pilots told the NTSB during an interview
Thereon's riddle
Believe he can only be referring to the rudder cocked left, whereas one might have expected it to be right to compensate for the crosswind. But it seems irrelevant: consider the effect on cabling, wiring and hydraulics of breaking the aircraft's back, not to mention uncontrollable body movement up front during the toboggan ride after the gear collapsed.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by beechf33a
Some say the aircraft will weather vane into the wind. etc etc
While running along a reasonable runway surface, the a/c will wish to 'weathercock' into wind (in this case to the left) - that is how a/c are designed. With suitable steering inputs, initially nosewheel steering and then rudder, it will remain straight AND maintain the centreline without ANY need for aileron application due to rudder input and any gusts will only accentuate the yawing tendency. So, in the Denver case, we would expect a bit of right rudder on the runway, left aileron 'to taste' to stop the upwind wing lifting in the x-wind and that, sadly, is as far as we can go for this unfortunate crew.
Once it is airborne, it WILL tend to be blown downwind (with the air mass), counteracted by its 'yawed' angle into wind and should track the runway centreline again. Now it does not need the right rudder to counter the 'weathervane' force as it is no longer constrained by physical contact with the runway (now flying in a moving body of air), so it is normal to remove both the right rudder and the left aileron (known in the trade as 'crossed controls') in a co-ordinated fashion to leave the a/c in a balanced flight tracking the centreline but pointed into wind. .
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: 6nm N of LHR
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cross winds
Was at Denver that night. Don't recall the wind being especially gusty (in fact thought it was quite a nice evening when returning the hire car).
"Captain Speaking" said the flight had to wait as there was a problem with another a/c and that he would taxy to a quiet spot and switch off the engines". After some minutes, it was time to move and I watched out of the port side the flashing blue lights in the distance. Seemed an uneventful takeoff.
So perhaps the point about gusts being a major cause of the crash may not be borne out? Quite a puzzle though....
Roger
"Captain Speaking" said the flight had to wait as there was a problem with another a/c and that he would taxy to a quiet spot and switch off the engines". After some minutes, it was time to move and I watched out of the port side the flashing blue lights in the distance. Seemed an uneventful takeoff.
So perhaps the point about gusts being a major cause of the crash may not be borne out? Quite a puzzle though....
Roger
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as someone said, BOAC?
Regarding 'tailplane nose up/down', 'rudder left/right', slides missing - now these are most probably 'red herrings' indeed and should be ignored by the 'experts' here.
DFDR and crew will tell all.
Yes, it was me. To emphasise what I said, I think that the crosswind, as reported, would have had an *effect* but was unlikely to have been the main cause of the accident. Jet rudders are powerful beasts and all that would have been needed under normal circumstances, especially at near-flying speeds, would have been more application of the same to keep the a/c on the runway. It's not something pilots are likely to forget to do as it becomes a fairly reflex action, like steering a car or bicycle.
As far as the photo goes, I wouldn't read too much into control positions as many surfaces are free to float in whatever direction gravity/wind takes them when they are de-powered or lose hydraulic fluid through severing of lines. Only things that operate through jacking mechanisms stay in the places they were originally positioned and then only if the connections haven't been broken in the crash.
As far as the photo goes, I wouldn't read too much into control positions as many surfaces are free to float in whatever direction gravity/wind takes them when they are de-powered or lose hydraulic fluid through severing of lines. Only things that operate through jacking mechanisms stay in the places they were originally positioned and then only if the connections haven't been broken in the crash.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Control position
At Pensacola in the sixties, a newly rated pilot landed gear up in his A-4. As the long slide came to an end he anticipated the investigation and thinks, select Gear Down.
"They'll never know, Right?" In front of the crash team the wounded Skyhawk shook,
groaned, and lifted itself up into a reasonable approximation of "A/C parked".
Gaming the investigation comes with its perils.
Obviously, this isn't the case here, and for the above reason, don't read too much into
a wounded bird. At least I won't, I leave that to better qualified people.
"They'll never know, Right?" In front of the crash team the wounded Skyhawk shook,
groaned, and lifted itself up into a reasonable approximation of "A/C parked".
Gaming the investigation comes with its perils.
Obviously, this isn't the case here, and for the above reason, don't read too much into
a wounded bird. At least I won't, I leave that to better qualified people.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It Has Been Moved
It is now relocated, but no word yet on the nose gear status.
This report is about 45 minutes old and has new photos.
http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=107055&catid=339
This report is about 45 minutes old and has new photos.
http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=107055&catid=339
Not Likely
In front of the crash team the wounded Skyhawk shook, groaned, and lifted itself up into a reasonable approximation of "A/C parked".
