Flybe BQ400 captain's red face!
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Seems to me that the Professional Pilots (i.e. the only ones who actually understand low-vis operations, and who seem to be a minority here these days) agree that this was a total, complete and utter non-event. The only ones who think it newsworthy are either journalists fishing for a story, litigious businessmen or PPLs who really should know better.
Perhaps the thread is long overdue for a 'diversion' to the Spectators Balcony forum 
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God forbid the pilots have their say on a professional pilot rumour network!!
It is a disgrace.
I ask the mods to remove all professional pilots from the forum immediately. This will enable well informed individuals, such as Final 3 Greens, to twist and contort niff naff and trivia to their hearts content.
I have no doubt that the 'users' will have plenty of real, solid value to add to the debate.
To be honest, I would be happier if the SLF were to be banned from posting anywhere other than their own forum. Whilst I am absolutely for freedom of speech, professional pilots should be allowed to discuss thier profession without the interpretations of the misguided.
It is a disgrace.
I ask the mods to remove all professional pilots from the forum immediately. This will enable well informed individuals, such as Final 3 Greens, to twist and contort niff naff and trivia to their hearts content.
I have no doubt that the 'users' will have plenty of real, solid value to add to the debate.
To be honest, I would be happier if the SLF were to be banned from posting anywhere other than their own forum. Whilst I am absolutely for freedom of speech, professional pilots should be allowed to discuss thier profession without the interpretations of the misguided.
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Maybe the 'SLF' can view this excellent forum and become wiser such that the next time they experience this problem they will know why it has happened. Furthermore they could then inform other passengers and avoid shock horror stories in the tabloid press. Maybe that is too much to ask as that is how the tabloid press sell newspapers. 
Maybe sarcasm should be banned Grizzle.
Maybe sarcasm should be banned Grizzle.
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3 greens : I think that you would not have a case.... because you had your flight and even went to france. The only thing was that you didnt stop!
I think that you need to just look on the bright side...you had a lovely flight in a super aircraft. Probably had a smashing meal and some fine wine with a group of people who have now come to be known as not just your fellow passengers but true friends!! All that and I bet Flybe refunded you the cost of the flight!!
On top of all that I bet you had the ideal excuse to miss that meeting that would of been just as boring as they always are!
If it had happened to me I think I would of just been grateful!! Sorry could resits it - Now I will remove my tongue from my cheek!!
I think that you need to just look on the bright side...you had a lovely flight in a super aircraft. Probably had a smashing meal and some fine wine with a group of people who have now come to be known as not just your fellow passengers but true friends!! All that and I bet Flybe refunded you the cost of the flight!!
On top of all that I bet you had the ideal excuse to miss that meeting that would of been just as boring as they always are!
If it had happened to me I think I would of just been grateful!! Sorry could resits it - Now I will remove my tongue from my cheek!!
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3 Greens absolutely right sue those naughty airlines. Airlines should only despatch flights they can guarantee will arrive trouble free. Any doubts about, weather, crew capability, in flight entertainment, toilet blockage or shortage of shandy and the flight should be cancelled. Hmm... bit quiet at the airport now....Anyone know what time the Cutty Sark leaves for Australia I have an important meeting in 3 months time.
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So many messages on such a trivial matter! The pilot followed the rules. The airline supported him completely. And if I were a passenger aboard that flight, I'd support him, too. Everything was done correctly and by the book. Where's the problem?
I found interesting the comment that safety was not compromised at any point. Isn't that self-evident? The whole reason for returning was to maintain safety, so OF COURSE safety was not compromised. Landing in unsatisfactory conditions, with an inadequately trained crewnow that would have been compromising safety!
I found interesting the comment that safety was not compromised at any point. Isn't that self-evident? The whole reason for returning was to maintain safety, so OF COURSE safety was not compromised. Landing in unsatisfactory conditions, with an inadequately trained crewnow that would have been compromising safety!
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I have been a restricted captain with less than 100 hrs in type and could not land below cat1 minimums. I think all airlines have to meet the same requirements so no matter how qualified you are as a captain you still need to meet the min requirements in new equipment.
While the captain certainly acted correctly in the situation, I donīt think his too detailed PA announcement did his airline any favours in the eyes of the general public as itīs in the news all around the world by now.
Hereīs an imaginary conversation probably taking place in the average John and Maryīs kitchen somewhere in the Cardiff area:
"Darling, what was the name of the airline whose captain had been flying for a living for thirty years but didnīt have the qualifications to land the plane?"
"Flybe, dear"
"Yes. Please remind me never to book a flight with them"
"Sure. Now, pass the marmalade"
So, shoot me
Hereīs an imaginary conversation probably taking place in the average John and Maryīs kitchen somewhere in the Cardiff area:
"Darling, what was the name of the airline whose captain had been flying for a living for thirty years but didnīt have the qualifications to land the plane?"
"Flybe, dear"
"Yes. Please remind me never to book a flight with them"
"Sure. Now, pass the marmalade"
So, shoot me
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Airlines should only despatch flights they can guarantee will arrive trouble free
I found interesting the comment that safety was not compromised at any point. Isn't that self-evident?
Do you remember the phrase "being economical with the truth?" In other words, not lying, but omitting relevant facts? I would imagine that is used as a case study at journo school.
Where's the problem?
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Finn47,
Or it could go like............
"Darling, what was the name of the airline whose captain had been flying for a living for thirty years but didn't have the qualifications to land the plane?"
"Flybe, dear"
"Yes. Please remind me never to book a flight with them"
"Nonsense dear, I'd rather fly an airline that follow the regulations than one that doesn't, besides FlyBe has an excellent safety record"
"Sure, now pass the marmalade"
Or it could go like............
"Darling, what was the name of the airline whose captain had been flying for a living for thirty years but didn't have the qualifications to land the plane?"
"Flybe, dear"
"Yes. Please remind me never to book a flight with them"
"Nonsense dear, I'd rather fly an airline that follow the regulations than one that doesn't, besides FlyBe has an excellent safety record"
"Sure, now pass the marmalade"
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Out of interest, what was the weather at Orly? Reason I ask is because I've been flying in and out of CDG recently and although its been below CAT I minima in CDG it was CAT I in Orly (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
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68+iou1,
It wasn't Cat II in Paris when he departed and it wasn't forecast to be Cat II either.
If by.... 'European winter' you mean the possibility of any airfield in Europe getting un-forecast fog then I suppose Flybe could keep him on the ground for 6 months until the summer
but that wouldn't really be productive now would it. Also how is he supposed to acquire the minimum hours on type for Cat II qualification if they keep him on the ground ?
No_Speed_Restriction,
When you are Cat I only and divert you need to find an alternate that has better than Cat I weather.......if Orly was Cat I it was unsuitable as an alternate.
It wasn't Cat II in Paris when he departed and it wasn't forecast to be Cat II either.
If by.... 'European winter' you mean the possibility of any airfield in Europe getting un-forecast fog then I suppose Flybe could keep him on the ground for 6 months until the summer
but that wouldn't really be productive now would it. Also how is he supposed to acquire the minimum hours on type for Cat II qualification if they keep him on the ground ?No_Speed_Restriction,
When you are Cat I only and divert you need to find an alternate that has better than Cat I weather.......if Orly was Cat I it was unsuitable as an alternate.
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This is a mildly entertaining thread and even though I usually only read these days, let me say this:
I've had my very own FlyBe (or maybe not) experience the other week, when the total flight time FRA-MAN-FRA was 3:40 and the total delay for the two legs was 9 hours. (six hours FRA-MAN due to dense fog and traffic, three hours on the return two days later due to a cabin door problem and a fuel truck that was lost or so. Not knowing what goes on behind the scenes, none of those seem to be the immediate fault of FlyBe. The lack of sandwiches on the first leg was, though.)
Now here, as much as I would hate sitting in a flying tin can all the way to Paris just to find out the weather is below minima (no matter what they are, it could have been below CAT III just as well) and then sittig on in the same can all the way back home again (probably without any decent catering, since it's FlyBe), it's still better than a) diverting to some stupid place where none of us wanted to be or b) risking an unsafe landing.
Get me home allright, let's try again tomorrow.
Thumbs up for the crew, for their decision to return and for their openness in the PA. Thumbs down for those pax who don't understand aviation (and aviationese) and start bitching about an "unqualified" pilot.
pj
I've had my very own FlyBe (or maybe not) experience the other week, when the total flight time FRA-MAN-FRA was 3:40 and the total delay for the two legs was 9 hours. (six hours FRA-MAN due to dense fog and traffic, three hours on the return two days later due to a cabin door problem and a fuel truck that was lost or so. Not knowing what goes on behind the scenes, none of those seem to be the immediate fault of FlyBe. The lack of sandwiches on the first leg was, though.)
Now here, as much as I would hate sitting in a flying tin can all the way to Paris just to find out the weather is below minima (no matter what they are, it could have been below CAT III just as well) and then sittig on in the same can all the way back home again (probably without any decent catering, since it's FlyBe), it's still better than a) diverting to some stupid place where none of us wanted to be or b) risking an unsafe landing.
Get me home allright, let's try again tomorrow.
Thumbs up for the crew, for their decision to return and for their openness in the PA. Thumbs down for those pax who don't understand aviation (and aviationese) and start bitching about an "unqualified" pilot.
pj
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68+iou1
So how do you propose we all become CAT2 qualified then? Please bear in mind that I've used CAT2 approaches, for real, in the middle of summer before. If you were our FOD nobody would ever fly!
As an aside the 195 is CAT3 capable. Unfortunately it hasn't yet been approved by the authorities and nobody at Flybe is CAT3 qualified. I suppose if the weather goes below CAT3 then that's another one to sort out in court.
So how do you propose we all become CAT2 qualified then? Please bear in mind that I've used CAT2 approaches, for real, in the middle of summer before. If you were our FOD nobody would ever fly!
As an aside the 195 is CAT3 capable. Unfortunately it hasn't yet been approved by the authorities and nobody at Flybe is CAT3 qualified. I suppose if the weather goes below CAT3 then that's another one to sort out in court.
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But if you look only though the eyes of a pilot, it was a non event.