Norwegian pilot over alcohol limit caught in AMS
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The press always seem to jump on anything flying related as it is an easy way to sell more papers etc.
Security workers at airports know this and in a recent one at LHR involving a Beardy Airways pilot the worker in question used that to their advantage and phoned the tabloid papers before he phoned the police.......
The thing that really cracks me up is that our beloved members of parliament sink a few pints at lunch time and then go and decide how best to screw our lives up!
Security workers at airports know this and in a recent one at LHR involving a Beardy Airways pilot the worker in question used that to their advantage and phoned the tabloid papers before he phoned the police.......
The thing that really cracks me up is that our beloved members of parliament sink a few pints at lunch time and then go and decide how best to screw our lives up!
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Truckers v pilots, it's a ridiculous and small minded comparison.
It should be noted that in an aeroplane, mostly their are two pilots and in times past there were two pilots and an engineer.
In an articulated lorry there is one person for the entire trip.
Of course, there are no circumstances under which I would condone any pilot, atco or trucker having a drink before doing their job, but it's a very well known fact that it did and does happen.
In times past, it was common for pilots to have a few drinks the night before and the rest of the crew to cover for the Captain by leaving him (or her!) to sleep it off during the trip.
It rarely happens now and it's quite right that no one should feel under pressure not to report any colleague they think may have been drinking.
That said, compare the number of accidents involving single pilot operations (of all classes) where alcohol is involved and I think you'll find that aviation is not so whiter than white.
Many pilots involved in such accidents have consumed booze within 24 hours of the incident, a fact that many of the holier than thou posters here conveniently forget.
There's no excuse for drinking alcohol before driving or flying, if you do, you deserve what you get.
It should be noted that in an aeroplane, mostly their are two pilots and in times past there were two pilots and an engineer.
In an articulated lorry there is one person for the entire trip.
Of course, there are no circumstances under which I would condone any pilot, atco or trucker having a drink before doing their job, but it's a very well known fact that it did and does happen.
In times past, it was common for pilots to have a few drinks the night before and the rest of the crew to cover for the Captain by leaving him (or her!) to sleep it off during the trip.
It rarely happens now and it's quite right that no one should feel under pressure not to report any colleague they think may have been drinking.
That said, compare the number of accidents involving single pilot operations (of all classes) where alcohol is involved and I think you'll find that aviation is not so whiter than white.
Many pilots involved in such accidents have consumed booze within 24 hours of the incident, a fact that many of the holier than thou posters here conveniently forget.
There's no excuse for drinking alcohol before driving or flying, if you do, you deserve what you get.
Goatface:
I'm curious as to how long ago this was "Common" and where it was going on.
I started with my airline in '66, (after some airforce time), and while I can not state that there was never a single hangover in the industry I have never heard of a case where the Captain was left "to sleep it off during the trip", let alone it being "Common".
In times past, it was common for pilots to have a few drinks the night before and the rest of the crew to cover for the Captain by leaving him (or her!) to sleep it off during the trip.
I started with my airline in '66, (after some airforce time), and while I can not state that there was never a single hangover in the industry I have never heard of a case where the Captain was left "to sleep it off during the trip", let alone it being "Common".
Last edited by innuendo; 13th Dec 2008 at 19:23.
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The point is, captplaystation, that people will report suspicious behaviour because they suspect that your colleagues and their "quiet word" may just not do the trick.
It's rather like travelling on the London Underground. If we see someone acting suspiciously then we'll inform a member of staff, and that way everyone's happy because the worst outcome is a little embarrassment.
Similarly, if we suspect our "professional" flight crew may have been drinking (which is, incidentally, against the law), we'll make sure the authorities investigate it before passengers get on board.
Nutloose: to answer your question, yes you absolutely would be liable if you were drunk and came to the cockpit and then caused a problem because by intervening you assume a duty of care. Same legal principle applies to a doctor on board who gets involved in an emergency: you assume responsibility.
It's rather like travelling on the London Underground. If we see someone acting suspiciously then we'll inform a member of staff, and that way everyone's happy because the worst outcome is a little embarrassment.
Similarly, if we suspect our "professional" flight crew may have been drinking (which is, incidentally, against the law), we'll make sure the authorities investigate it before passengers get on board.
Nutloose: to answer your question, yes you absolutely would be liable if you were drunk and came to the cockpit and then caused a problem because by intervening you assume a duty of care. Same legal principle applies to a doctor on board who gets involved in an emergency: you assume responsibility.
Last edited by Nicholas49; 14th Dec 2008 at 15:38.
So there I am sitting down the back and enjoying a drink as on holiday. Suddenly Airport "7?" occurs. I'm qualified on type but can't go up front and get control of the a/c. I just have to let me and everyone else get killed because I've had a drink! What a load of tosh.
I know the law is stupid but surely not that stupid. Anyway has the poor chap actually been charged yet or is he/she awaiting the results of a blood test.
I know the law is stupid but surely not that stupid. Anyway has the poor chap actually been charged yet or is he/she awaiting the results of a blood test.
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Well, remember that if you as pax would have to resume control over the aircraft, then that would be an emergency. And as we all know, in an emergency, the captain may legally decide on whatever course of action, all rules®s aside.
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IcePack: you misunderstand my point. The law is very favourable towards rescuers and that's what you would be in the situation you give, but if you go up there and make matters worse because you've been drinking, you've assumed a duty of care and you'll be completely liable for your actions. I'm afraid that's the law.
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we know the rules,so lets stick to them....enjoy as much drink as you want,but not before duty,it's pretty simple.don't drink and drive,so don't drink and fly.this will stop the snoopers,be they hotel or airport staff dropping crew in the sh.t for drinking before duty.if you cannot go without a drink,then get some help from an organisation which will control your addiction.
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8 hours bottles to............
So what ever happened to this rule? if you wear the uniform, to the world, you are the man! ''I am not operating today so it does'nt matter??'' If you put a pig in a stable it doesnt become a horse! Maybe 8 hours bottles to coat hangers should apply.......
GGR
GGR
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Many, many years ago one operator I worked for would overnight, away from their base, aircraft & crews on 'split duty' FDP's.
One particular Captain, as good an operator as he was, was known for liking a beer, as I like a beer myself, and it was known that he would drink on these overnight split duties in hotel bars, the 'split' part of their FDP in the hotel might have been 8 ish hours.
This was in the far more relaxed 'bottle to throttle' days, nobody worried about a few beers the evening before, however there was an occasion when this individual stuck his oar in, as if he was so 'squeaky clean' professional, when it was not required, targeted personally at, me and that was the opportunity I took to bring it to the management's attention that he regularly drank whilst on a Flying Duty Period.
It hadn't been something that had occurred to the management and, regardless of the blood/alcohol level when one arrives at the airport to operate, if one is on a split duty then one is on a continuous FDP whether it be in the aeroplane, a hotel or wherever and even a sip of the weakest shandy is drinking whilst on a flying duty.
One particular Captain, as good an operator as he was, was known for liking a beer, as I like a beer myself, and it was known that he would drink on these overnight split duties in hotel bars, the 'split' part of their FDP in the hotel might have been 8 ish hours.
This was in the far more relaxed 'bottle to throttle' days, nobody worried about a few beers the evening before, however there was an occasion when this individual stuck his oar in, as if he was so 'squeaky clean' professional, when it was not required, targeted personally at, me and that was the opportunity I took to bring it to the management's attention that he regularly drank whilst on a Flying Duty Period.
It hadn't been something that had occurred to the management and, regardless of the blood/alcohol level when one arrives at the airport to operate, if one is on a split duty then one is on a continuous FDP whether it be in the aeroplane, a hotel or wherever and even a sip of the weakest shandy is drinking whilst on a flying duty.
Stercus Accidit
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AMS is a known hotspot for nightstopping crews with Hotel staff being paid rewards for tip-offs to the police of drinking crews!!! Beware!!!
a) Don't drink
or
b) Don't show you're drinking
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AMS is a known hotspot for nightstopping crews with Hotel staff being paid rewards for tip-offs to the police of drinking crews!!! Beware!!!
It seems you know more, do share!
Same legal principle applies to a doctor on board who gets involved in an emergency: you assume responsibility.
I have been told that in my company a random doctor will not and cannot be held responsible.
The company has a duty of care regarding its passengers and that can never be transferred to a doctor who happens to be on board. That is the reason that in a medical situation you should always try to seek advice from a company doctor, not for a second opininion (you could have a top cardiologist on board and the company doctor can be little more then a GP), but to satisfy legal requirements.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Worst case I remember was an Ops Manager in the Middle East who arranged to have copies of the room service bills sent to him from India and he then checked them against reporting time for the crew there that night. Moral, always pay cash. (you can say you bought it at 18.00 but it took until 23.00 for it to be noted by hotel accounts).
Wouldn't have been so bad but he was an alcoholic and had lost his own licence through drink!
Regardless of how it may sound I am NOT advocating drinking and flying, just don't lay yourself open to accusation.
Also worth remembering that in India it is a mandatory 12 hours abstention prior to flying and it contravenes National law if you are found to be over the limit at check in. Indian pilots are/were random checked as a matter of course.
Wouldn't have been so bad but he was an alcoholic and had lost his own licence through drink!
Regardless of how it may sound I am NOT advocating drinking and flying, just don't lay yourself open to accusation.
Also worth remembering that in India it is a mandatory 12 hours abstention prior to flying and it contravenes National law if you are found to be over the limit at check in. Indian pilots are/were random checked as a matter of course.
